My Opinion of Pocket Screws

Article - December 11, 2007

This question comes from Chris. He writes:

Hey Marc, I love your show. I watch it religiously and have learned so many good techniques. I wanted to know, what is your position on pocket hole joinery in relation to coffee table assembly. I built my first coffee table using a Kreg pocket hole jig to join the apron and legs together. Kreg states in their owner’s manual that a pocket hole is mechanically stronger than a mortise and tenon joint. Do you think pocket hole joinery is cheap sign of craftsmanship? I would like your feedback on what you think of my coffee table design? I have attached a picture of my coffee table.

And here was my reply:
Hi Chris. First off, let me compliment you on your design and craftsmanship. What a beautiful piece. No matter what the underlying joinery is, that is a fantastic design with great execution. Now, concerning pocket hole screws. Remember, joinery can be just as much about taste and opinion as it is about strength and utility. If you are happy with the final product and you enjoy using pocket screws, all the power to you! Screw away my friend!

Now for my opinion. I have used pocket screws in the past when I could get away with it. The only time I really use them is if they will never be seen. And even then, they are usually the last option I think of. Perhaps its a bit elitist, but I do feel that pocket screws “cheapen” a piece. I would certainly expect Kreg to defend its product and their strength claim may be valid (Im not convinced). But is strength really the only concern to us as woodworkers? If that’s the case, we might want to start using metal to build furniture instead of wood. :) Cant get much stronger than that!

Seriously though, I take pride in the fact that my best work contains little to no metal. But that’s just me. We all have to decide for ourselves where to draw the line. Some folks cant imagine using power tools on their projects. They take pride in the fact that their work is crafted the old-fashioned way. Some folks just want to get ‘er done!

Just remember that we all woodwork for different reasons Heck, some of us do it just so we can collect tools. And still others do it simply because its such a sharp contrast to what we do at the office all day behind our computer screens in the confines of our cubicles. Whatever your reason is, keep it fun. If pocket screws make it fun for you, then keep using them. Your work certainly is not suffering for it. Good luck.

Want to learn a little more about joinery? Check out my book Essential Joinery!

Discussion

Scott December 11, 2007 10:17 am

First of all, that is a beautiful coffee table, Chris! I can’t offer a different perspective than Marc on pocket screws, I feel pretty much the same on those. I haven’t used them, though.

If I were in the business of making and selling furniture and/or built-ins, I might feel differently, though. When time is money, you can’t argue against their use, in my opinion. My personal tastes lean toward featuring jointery, though, so if a customer was willing to pay me for the extra time necessary to make dovetails or through mortise-and-tenon joints, I would rather go that route.

Where my opinion differs from Marc is on the use of metal in furniture. I love the contrast of copper with a good patina against figured woods, for example, and I usually wind up incorporating metal into – or even featuring metal in my projects. I also have no qualms about adding angle iron or flat stock steel in hidden locations to add strength to a piece. But I tend to overbuild my furniture as well.

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- cliff October 21, 2014 1:26 pm
  
  First, I am not a woodworker. I do have a lot of tools but I use them to repair and build things I need. Right now I am building the cabinets for my basement wet bar. I went shopping for factory cabinets and the prices were over 4000 for the five cabinets I made. I built my front and side bar counters at 42″with the granite installed and since my wife wanted shelves I built two 40 inch tall, 10 inch deep, 22 inch wide cabinets which are part of the counter-open to the inside. I used pocket holes screws for joining the cabinets. Because they came out pretty good- for never having built a cabinet before- and the fact that I wanted 3/4 inch width cabinets versus the 1/2 crap they wanted over $4k for, my wife decided I should build the rest of the cabinets for the back counter. I have built a sink base, lazy Susan corner, trash can drawer base and am finishing a wine rack base so I can keep air flowing to a pressure vent opening behind it. I used pocket screws for the assembly and they are very, very strong. I also used pocket holes for the face frames. You cannot see any of the pocket holes as they are on the rear, sides and bottom of the cabinets. As I said, I have never built cabinets before but the ability to custom build these to the exact measurements I needed really made a big difference. And the savings is incredible. I will have all the cabinets I need, including shaker style doors and drawers covers, lazy susan components and trash can drawer for less than $1000. Of course, I f I didn’t have Marc and his wonderful videos to turn to I never would have attempted it. I built my cross cut sled based on Marc’s video. I will post a pic or two of my bar soon.
  
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Mike in St. Paul December 11, 2007 10:33 am

A couple of thoughts on pocket screws: I agree that they have their place in woodworking. I own a Kreg jig and that it is cool and easy to use.

That said, I don’t agree they are as strong as m&t joints (just like you Marc). They are very strong in the “pull” direction however I don’t think they are nearly that strong in a twisting moment. Is your joinery going to twist? Probably not, but I think sometimes they make the pocket screw butt joint sound stronger than it is.

They do work great for face frames, but I think they have their limits too.

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Lori December 11, 2007 12:20 pm

I must say that is a strikingly beautiful piece of art. I really like the contrasting woods and the design is wonderful.

I don’t know much about pocket screws…but I thought that I would show a really cool video on wood joinery testing. This was really interesting and I’m not sure who else has seen it…so I thought I’d pass it on so the rest of you could enjoy it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DhLfb7m9Fug

Happy Woodworking!!!

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Mattias in Durham, NC December 11, 2007 2:51 pm

That’s a really nice coffee table. It makes me want to be in my workshop making one like it.

Marc, about pocket screws. I think you’re being unfair about pocket screw construction. Just a couple of videos ago, you promoted edge banding, which is a non-wood woodworking shortcut, but now pocket screws are not OK. Maybe there is some finer distinction you’re trying to make that I’m missing –

Edge banding has its place, and pocket screws too. I agree they both probably “cheapen” a project. I use pocket screws sometimes in non-visible places, whenever it makes sense to me, and I look forward to trying the glue-on edge banding sometime soon. I guess it’s up to each and every one to decide what they want to use. My shop definitely won’t go non-electrical or all-electrical, that’s for sure. I try to stay in the middle.

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Jason (cfiiman) December 11, 2007 3:11 pm

Awesome table man! I love the contrasting walnut and maple? Pocket screw wise, I use them to join table tops to rails, but they are not seen unless the table is upside down, as long as they do not show I say use em’!

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thewoodwhisperer December 11, 2007 3:22 pm

Mattias. My man. You are drawing several incorrect conclusions. First, I never said pocket screws were “not OK”. I believe there is a place and time to use them. And I personally feel that pocket screws should not be included in my fine furniture. That is a very personal opinion and its a decision every woodworker has to make for his/herself. I pretty much said the same thing about edge-banding. It has a time and place, but again, my fine furniture is not the place for iron-on edgebanding. I even stated that specifically in the edgebanding video toward the end.
The odd thing is that your last paragraph above pretty much sums up exactly what I said in both the video and my reply to the question of the week. So if you listen a little more closely to what I say, you will find that we are actually on the same page.

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Ryan December 11, 2007 3:52 pm

Chris, great piece. Very soon I will be making a new coffee table and your creating is causing me some second thoughts on my design.
I like taking advantage of pocket screws when they won’t be seen. For my last project I needed to build 9 drawers. I used pocket screws on the back of the back piece and again on the front of the drawer. The drawer fronts covered the holes in the front the of drawer subassembly, and unless you take the drawers out, you’ll never see the holes in the back. It’s not dovetails, I can live with that. I have plenty of other examples of dovetail drawers to show off. I did’t have enough clamps to build all 9 drawers at once as would be needed without some mechanical fastener.
Some of my projects are just too awkward to get good clamping pressure and if I can hide a few pocket screws instead… I feel perfectly justified knowing that the piece will be strong. I am convinced that everytime I have used pocket screws, they resulted in a joint that was strong enough.

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Jim Jones December 11, 2007 5:09 pm

I guess I’m more of a pragmatist. I don’t have decent tools for mortise and tenons to attach an apron to a table leg. I have tried dowels (I have a jig) but had some alignment issues and didn’t like them. Only used them twice and put them aside.

I now use pocket screws and glue and the folks I’ve made tables for have never wondered why.

And I am not embarrassed to use fake through-tenons or dowels for effect.

I may decide to buy mortise and tenon tools sometime in the future but right now I am having too much fun doing “almost fine” woodworking using cheap pocket screws. :-) There are so many things I need to improve on that I have no problem using them for a while longer.

Go for it.

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Ron December 11, 2007 6:11 pm

I’ve got the Kreg jig – bought to build some built in cabinetry on the face frame. They are the cats’ meow with face frames. They are like ketchup. You use it on some things and not on others. Doesn’t make them right or wrong, cheap or shortcut unless; like any other joint or fastener; if used improperly can cause dischord.

For example; pocket screws are a poor choice in Mission Style furniture where exposed joinery is a part of the style.

Like Mark I prefer to keep the hardware away from my projects – for the most part. But some times they are thee thing to use and I’m not above using them.

Metal is stronger than wood, just no getting around that. If you compare the pocket screw to a mortise and tenon (like the kreg people did at the wood show) you need to look at all the stresses on the joint (and some just won’t make sense as you won’t load the joint that way) but it’s hard to beat metal in shear. But what about torque, bending, compression or tension? In some cases the screw is going to pull out of the wood long before a wide glue joint gives up the ghost.

In many cases, like Ryan says, you want something that is plenty good enough. Good design and execution does that more than the joint you decide to use. With some exceptions.

Nice job – keep it up!

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David (runningwood) December 11, 2007 6:40 pm

beautiful table, nicely done. I just have 2 technical questions for you: how is the lower shelf joined to the legs ?

How did you handle potential issue of wood movement/ expansion with that beautiful top, as it is essentially several pieces in a frame like surrond ?

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Vic December 11, 2007 7:54 pm

Chris, I have to gush about your piece, too. It is beautifully designed and executed. I love my Kreg pocket hole set. But I, myself, would only use it on
“shop” cabinets and furniture. As with everyone else, a matter of personal taste.
I know the local high school shop teacher loves to use pocket screw joinery and he does a lot of built-ins on the side. For me it is mostly about me being incredibly OCD. I want everything to be perfect, and for me that means more traditional methods of joinery. Keep up the great work!

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Mattias in Durham, NC December 12, 2007 5:39 am

Marc, I suspected all along that I just wasn’t paying enough attention. So your objection to pocket screws in this particular project wasn’t that pocket screws in general are no good. It was because it’s otherwise such a high quality table and, like edge banding, you felt it might stand out and detract from the “fine furniture” impression. I was thinking I would revisit your edge banding video before trying it out sometime, and now I know I have to – and I should probably be taking notes.

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Jason Young December 12, 2007 8:02 am

I just wanted to throw in my two cents worth. First of all, Chris that table is beatiful. It’s actually given me some inspiration for a design issue I’ve struggling with. I have a semi-circular home theatre style leather sofa and I want to make a coffee table that matches the curvature of the sofa. I’m also a big fan of craftsman style furniture and was having some difficulty visualizing how to incorporate the rectilinear style of craftsman with the oval coffee table. I think I’ll do something similar to your top and just round the outside pieces as well as the breadboard ends and keep the insides rectangular. brilliant!.

Anyway, I know many of struggle with the idea of when to use hardware and /or “traditional” joinery methods. I always think of a friend of mine who bought a beatiful dining room table but it bugs him that there’s veneer on it. As a structural engineer and woodworker I know that using veneer on an MDF substrate makes a lot of sense in terms of stability. At the same time, I’d rather have a solid wood table. It’s like I’m going against common sense or logic for the sake of a historic romanticism involved with using solid wood. We humans can be a weird bunch sometimes! Anyway, that’s a bit off topic, I guess it comes down to personal taste, I think pocket hole joinery is great and just bought a jig. but I won’t use it on what I consider “fine furniture” However I didn’t consider veneer on MDF to be “Fine furniture” until I watched Neil Laymens built his lingerie cabinet over at furnitology. There’s no doubt that that piece is a beatiful piece of craftsmanship and a very worthwhile series of videos to watch.

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Dave December 12, 2007 9:49 am

Chris the table is absolutely gorgeous and to me that is what matters.

Joinery is a matter of taste as Marc says. My son,who is a much better woodworker than me, uses pocket screws on everything. There must be 1000s in the face frames of his new kitchen cabinets. He did dovetails on the drawers. If you are not a great woodworker pocket screws sure line things up easier, but some things just ought to be mortise and tenon. I sure do like the $49 Kreg jig that adjusts to the thickness of the wood. I don’t see the point of the more expensive ones.

Since I’m not a real good woodworker I prefer power tools over hand tools. As I try to get better I do get frustrated when my mortise and tenons aren’t perfect and cause me alignment problems. If I had done a piece as good as Chris’s table I wouldn’t care what the elitist snobs thought.

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tom hunt December 12, 2007 10:08 am

I used pocket screws recently as clamps (on the bottom) to secure a but joint on a long board. I removed the screws after the joint set.

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Jeff December 12, 2007 4:23 pm

Marc, i use pocket screws on faceframes,holding down small table topsand the occasional simple drawer. That said I am presently on a hand tools kick and would like to know where you stand on blending your woodworking styles between power and hand tools and wonder why hand tools are not in the relm of the average woodworker is it the cost, sharpening and tuning or speed of either the hand tools or power tools which determine peoples choices?

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BarryO December 12, 2007 4:28 pm

Marc, I’m with you on this one. To me, pocket screws signify mass-produced, large volume, commodity factory furniture. Some of that may look quite nice, but I wouldn’t use pocket screws on anything I would want to consider fine furniture. Kitchen cabinets? Sure. A quick, more utilitarian-type project? Absolutely. But a future heirloom? Nope.

Like you, I like to use as few metal fasteners as possible. Ideally, I just use screws for fasntening hinges, knobs, and other hardware. And no Norm-like brads as clamp substitutes!

And I’m surprised that Kreg claims they are stronger than M&T.

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thewoodwhisperer December 12, 2007 5:30 pm

Real good question Jeff. Who knows…We can only speculate really. I suppose the vast majority of woodworkers are tool freaks. I am a self-confessed tool freak myself but I really do try to balance it with learning proper hand tool techniques and incorporating them into my routines. I honestly believe that my love of the craft exceeds my love of power tools. For some though, that is not the case. Their hobby is tools. How many guys do you know who love fixing up a car but never get it to the point that they can drive it? I remember when I was building my home theater I was amazed at how many people in the forums were so focused on the building of the damn thing, that watching movies was actually secondary.
Its the nature of the beast I suppose. Also, think about the average homeowner. At some point he/she decides they want to do some woodworking. If they didnt have a relative or shop class in their past to introduce them to hand tools, chances are all they know is what they see on TV. How many hand tools do you see in action on HGTV, DIY, and in commercials? So the fist thing they think they need is powertools. Hand tools seem antiquated to them.

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Shotspot December 12, 2007 8:56 pm

Chris, you should take pride in that table. It looks great. The pocket hole question is a good one. Everybody on the board knows that it is a very strong joint, but the question forces woodworkers that do not want to use them to acknowledge a bit of eliteism. Personally, a couple of my early projects have pocket hole screws. When starting with woodworking, the pocket hole screws allowed me the gratification of completing a project in a reasonable time without having to confront the challenges of joinery. Now, I am still fairly new to woodworking, but I would not use the pocket hole screws on a fine project. As I begin each new project, I try to incorporate a skill that I have not previously used. For me, I think that joinery is one of the first skills to be developed. I would feel like I cut corners to save time with pocket hole screws.

I think that 9 out of 10 people will look at a nice piece of custom furniture and compliment it, and move on. The 10th person is the woodworking dork that will get on his hands an knees and look at how you did something. This is not a move by the dork to criticize, but to appreciate the work that you did. Every person looking at the picture of your table can appreciate the attention to detail that you put into your piece. Congrats.

Tom Hunt… I would put the screws back. You already have the holes. You might just as well as have the strong joint that goes with them.

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Vic December 12, 2007 9:18 pm

The best way I’ve heard the explanation for using power tools was this(I don’t remember the source, but it was a big name and that’s why I remember)”Back in the old days, furniture makers had apprentices to do the grunt work.” One might be learning to perfect dovetails, so he’d work on drawers, another might be at the stage of making mortise and tenons, etc. Imagine the time it takes to joint and plane a board by hand! So, we come to the present age. The power tools helps take up the slack of the missing apprentice. A good woodworker still must attend to the finer points by hand. He’ll get the majority of a mortise with a router and fine tune with his chisels. Anyway, you get point. Power tools are our extra laborers, but they don’t dictate whether a piece is fine furniture. That is dictated by the attention to detail by the craftsman.

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Jeff December 13, 2007 12:46 pm

Hey Marc,Thanks for answering….I think the real question is for whom are we building ,,,,is it ourselves,our customer,or other woodworkers,or is it for future generations…right know I am building colonial furniture copies using as many hand tools as I can including cut nails which are more fun than brads! But I could not afford a shop completely outfitted with hand and power tools. ..and the sharpening alone is an art itself. but I could not continue my woodworking education without at least trying all techniques old and new..

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Robert May 5, 2009 12:51 am

I like the design of this table. It is very simple and is very nice to put in your living room

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John June 9, 2009 10:37 pm

Mark, I’m building a loft bed for my daughter and would like to use my Kreg Jig for some of the joinery. However, I’m concerned about the pocket-screw joint strength in this application. I’ve read about the “independent testing” proving the joints stability to 700 lbs shear stress, but I’m leery of this vague claim. I’m not an engineer, nor do I have sufficient wood skills (yet) to accurately chop the 14+ m/t joints. This is my first big project and while it’s not fine construction I’d like to build a reasonably attractive structure without the persistent fear of collapse. After reading several books on design and joinery I am still at a loss for determining the required joint. Would you lend some advise to a novice.

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- thewoodwhisperer June 10, 2009 12:08 am
  
  Hey John. First off, I can only speculate as you did based on the information we have access to. And those independent tests usually have questionable results and usually do little more than appeal to a bit of academic curiosity. Furthermore they tend to be inconsistent from test to test. But here’s the way I see. Most of these joints are more than strong enough to carry a standard load. So lets do a little calculation. For argument’s sake, let’s low ball that 700lb shear stress figure and say the joint can only hold 500lbs. Well the entire wait of the piece is not laying on that one joint. If it were a frame with four sides, there would be two joints for each frame piece, making a total of 8 joints. And if each joint is capable of holding 500lbs, that means the whole thing should hold a distributed load of 4000 lbs. Now of course the wood might break and other things may fail at that point. But it illustrates how the strength of multiple joints will work together to keep the whole thing sturdy.
  
  So while I would prefer using some sort of wood on wood glue joint for that application, I really thing pocket screws (used properly) should give you enough strength. Just one more opinion for you to consider. :) Good luck!
  
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Ray October 9, 2009 2:38 pm

Mark,
Hope you are not going the way of pocket screws in your future projects. You may call me a purist, but I believe there is no room in furniture making for pocket screws. They are fine for a construction project or the like, but I see no need in cabinetmaking. You might just as well get your gun out and load your brads and finish nails and go to it. I know of a show which takes this route. Load up and fire away, reminds me of shingling a roof.

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- thewoodwhisperer October 9, 2009 4:55 pm
  
  Hey Ray. Not sure what about my comment above makes you think I might be moving toward pocket screw construction. Only occasionally do I find a need or desire for them in my work. That said, I would never criticize someone for using them. I suppose I am what you would call the anti-purist (a live and let live kind of guy). And I won’t hesitate to show how to use them on the show, simply because I do feel a lot of people would benefit from understanding what they are and how they work. And they can decide for themselves if its good enough for their projects. So you may see pocket screws show up now and then (like the last part of the Low Entertainment Center episode).
  
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Rick Gentry April 11, 2011 12:08 pm

Personally I do not make much furniture, but everything I have made had Pocket Screws in it. I used the Kreg jig with Pocket Screws supplied from quickscrews. I used the wood plugs to totally hide the holes which I thought looked great.

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Hank Jochade February 8, 2015 1:54 pm

I have been using the Kreg system for about a year and I found that if I use glue along with the pocket screw, the joint becomes very strong. As long as the pockets are not visible, like the bottom of a cabinet or the underside of a table-top, I have no problem. You can even use a pocket hole to attach a face frame as long as it is lined up where the drawer slide will go – it will never be seen.

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Old Saw Buck May 25, 2015 8:50 pm

Pocket screws?!? Power tools?!? Glued joints?!? In fine furniture?!? What are you whippersnappers jabbering on about?!? Through tenons drawn tight with wedges is the the only way to join those hand-rived quarter-sawn boards that you cut down yourself from the back forty forest and hauled out with your mule team! EVERBODY KNOWS THIS IS THE ONLY WAY.

This discussion reminds me of a saying we firemen have about the fire service… Two hundred years of tradition, unobstructed by progress.

Respectfully,
O.S.B.

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Nick Batistic June 26, 2015 10:19 pm

Folks, don’t lose sight o what pocket screws can do for the hobby woodworker. If you generally have to work with butt joints because that’s the skill level you have (and that’s the skill level I have) going to Kreg’s system meant my meagre skill level jumped up a couple of grades. What’s to complain about that? And if you use glue and pocket screws, that joint is not going to fail in a hurry. I once made a trunk out of plywood, with tight glued butt joints. After I finished with it it lay out in the yard, and collected rain water for three months. I emptied it out, removed the screws, and still needed to use a sledgehammer to break the joints! And this was regular white glue, not the waterproof kind, So if you glue and pocket screw a joint, you can expect it to last a while….. It may not be FINE carpentry, but it can still be GOOD carpentry.

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RaulTrujillo December 2, 2015 11:57 am

I was trying to click on the link that tests the Pocket Holes vs Wood Joinery Testing but it didn’t work. I found another one that tests them both:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apsH8eBfjVA

However, you’ll see some comments about the use of glue.

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Outdoorman April 29, 2016 5:09 pm

So there is this video that was made to compare joint strength, my only beef with this is that he didn’t glue his pocket screw joints, I think it would have made a big difference.

https://woodgears.ca/joint_str.....thole.html

Cheers

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michael wales September 5, 2016 4:07 pm

pocket screw mentality has limited a woodworker friends growing past them and an otherwise fine craftperson makes furniture that in a 100 years will just be a thing someone threw together . I’m 67 years old and have my ideas about how things should be BUILT . Pocket screws are for boneheads.

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Shaaron January 6, 2017 10:29 pm

I have just had knee surgery and to aid in my very long and tedious recovery, I’ve decided to build a farmhouse dining table and benches. This is my first wood project since high school shop class (if you can even call that a project!). Clearly I’m not at the skill level that many of you are. That said, I love my Kreg pocket hole jig. I’m gaining confidence in working with a mitre saw and wood in what might otherwise be a daunting project, and I love that! Sorry to disappoint, Michael Wales–I’m multi-faceted, willing to try many things, and certainly not a bonehead.

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Nick Batistic May 8, 2017 6:43 pm

Yes, Michael was a bit quick to shoot! If liking pocket holes makes me a bonehead, sign me up. I recently retired, and have spent a few months on projects. My skill level has expanded to include both biscuits and dowels, but guess what? I still happily use pocket holes to ensure overall joint security, and feel no inferiority in doing so…..

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- John February 23, 2021 7:30 am
  
  I agree Nick. Over the years, I have used dowels, biscuits, mortise and tenon, and most recently pocket screws. I find them to not only creat a strong joint, but also provide more accuracy than any of the aforementioned methods. I will use pocket screws going forward as often as I can. In my opinion, they do not take away whatsoever from the quality of the finished product. And, any visible pocket holes can be concealed. I enjoy using new technologies that enhance the final product as well as improve efficiency
  
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Karla December 2, 2017 11:25 am

To put things into context, before I started my woodworking project, I could not tell you the difference between a phillips head screwdriver and a flathead. To say that I knew nothing about woodworking would be an understatement. But, I’m not one to shy away from a challenge, and I enjoy learning, so I decided to bite off a huge project.

A house I inherited had not had an update since it was built in the 50s, and the kitchen cabinets needed replacements. But I could not see myself paying the amount of money for even the cheapest cabinets Lowes had to offer.

So I started studying everything I could about the construction process. Learning about joinery, learning about the tools, learning about wood and fasteners – it’s a steep learning curve for sure, but so far nothing intimidating.

It wasn’t until I watched New Yankee Workshop’s Basic Kitchen Cabinet series that I started to feel overwhelmed. It had nothing to do with the skill level or time commitment, but space and money. Biscuit joiners, jointers, planers, routers, dove tail tools, templates, clamps, as well as an entire garage to house it in, the investment into the infrastructure started to make this project feel unapproachable. There had to be an alternative way for those like me who had little to no skill as well as little to no space.

Long story short after research I happened upon the Kreg system of joinery. I invested a total of about 500 bucks into their jigs and tools as well as a Dewalt tool kit, took my time, and I could not be happier with my finished product. I built kitchen cabinets!!!! Lowers and uppers – that, in my opinion, turned out better than any laminated particle board cabinet I could have purchased at the big box stores.

Do I appreciate beautiful handcrafted joinery? You bet. But the points here I’m trying to make are that I had specific goals, conditions, and skillset that made pocket hole joinery a better choice for me.

But I think one of the most important achievements is the feeling of success and confidence this project has given me. I don’t think I would have gotten that had I tried to setup table saws, cut dados and dovetails, etc.. It’s that feeling of accomplishment that has allowed me to want to continue to explore more advanced techniques in woodworking. It’s a foundation I’d recommend to anyone new who also would find getting started a bit too much to digest.

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David Petruzzi February 25, 2018 10:54 pm

Chris, your coffee table looks great! Based on the joinery of the breadboards, I’d think you’re more than capable of attaching the top to the aprons without pocket screws if you wanted.

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Denis Murray February 15, 2021 11:35 pm

I came across this site while doing some research on pocket hole joints, just to see what people thought of them in comparison to traditional joinery. I designed and made a CNC, Computer Numerical Controlled, Mill almost 10 years ago, which I use in my woodworking. I make predominately Japanese Shoji Screens. A standard mortise for the Shojis I make, measures 40mm x 20mm and 30mm deep. We use metric measures in Australia, where I live. In Imperial, it would be approximately 1.5inches x .8inches x 1.2inches deep. I did a test many years ago, and found that cutting a mortise of that size, with a chisel and mallet, took at least 45 minutes. My CNC Mill completes such mortises in 8 minutes, and to an accuracy not attainable, by me at least, with a chisel and mallet. On the question of strength, anyone who thinks a pocket hole joint has anywhere near the strength of a mortise and tenon joint, is delusional! If any reader is interested, my website is designsinwood.com.au. I have a YouTube channel, and on it there are 16 videos showing how I make a Shoji, and how I use the CNC Mill to cut the mortises. This is the link to my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channe.....subscriber

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Ezekiel Victor January 7, 2023 4:04 pm

I’m surprised by the ardent support of Kreg
specialty pocket hole screws considering what seem to me like dubious, profit-motivated arguments in favor—and pretty obviously so. It should spark one’s suspicions that no one seems to have an original argument in support—they’re all faithful recitations of Kreg marketing material, which apparently was quite convincing. I’m surprised because I would’ve thought intelligent woodworkers, a normally highly logical and ordered bunch, to be especially critical in matters of practicality.

The premise is as old as money itself: What do you do when your product doesn’t generate profits at a level justifying its (and the business’) existence? Maybe materials or labor costs are too high. Or it’s once in a lifetime, never wears, never breaks purchase (a non-consumable) by a very small niche in society. That answer: you pair the product with a recurrent revenue generator—a subscription, a regular paid update, or… there it is: a consumable. The cash cow. Hello, large profit margins and regular paydays that multiply proportionately with userbase growth, instead of plateau well short of that new Ferrari’s down payment.

I digress, the arguments as stated are specious. Drilling or screwing too deeply into your pieces? You already have the solution for that: drill depth collars, or a piece of tape for the budget conscious (read: cheapo; depth thingies are a few bucks).

Oh, the wide washer head saves the day? Uh, it most certainly does not—softer wood, stronger driver, trigger happy user, non-depth-stop aware (like the above), forgot to set driver torque or switch from drill mode to screw mode. And if you really are placing stock in that, I assure you Kreg did not invent the multitude of screws with large flat heads or molded on washers. (Nor did they invent aggressive thread pitches, self-tapping capabilities, or stronger metal blends, to take down a few of the other arguments at once.)

And for splitting wood: Am I the only one drilling pilot holes?

Am I forgetting anything?

Reply
Tony Hubscher September 19, 2024 5:55 pm

Thanks to everyone for sharing your great opinions.

As a beginner professional woodworker, setting up a shop with all the necessary tools for fine woodworking is a major goal. The machinery needed for making jigs for mortise and tenon joinery is very expensive, along with everything else.

I believe fine craftsmanship is on a continuum, and pocket holes are part of that continuum. Their value is subjective and ultimately, my customers will decide if they are good or not. For now, I can plug the pocket holes with beautiful contrasting timbers, making the joints very attractive. I’m making ends meet with what I have in my workshop.

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Gary October 31, 2024 8:50 pm

I’m very much a rookie woodworker. I’m learning mortises now … but I use kreg pockethole screws as needed. My point is pocket hole screws are not new. I have a piece of furniture that belonged to my grandfather that is over 150 years old. Has pockets holes… I didn’t know what those were called until recently. So, pocketholes have been used before kreg was a company. Just curious, does anyone know when the first use of pocket holes in furniture was?

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My Opinion of Pocket Screws

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