46 – Desert Outdoor Finish

Video - April 14, 2008

Outdoor finishes can be one of the trickiest types of wood finishes to master. Why? Because there is never a one size fits all solution. As woodworkers, we are used to dealing with the seasonal wood movement of our interior pieces. But when one of our creations is destined to live outside, there is much more to consider. Depending on your region’s climate, your project could experience anything from snow and ice to hot desert sand storms. How the heck do we prepare for that?!?! Well, it is still an area that I am learning much about. I haven’t built many outdoor pieces and most of my knowledge comes from my reading and conversations with other woodworkers. Here in the Arizona desert, we have mild winters, occasional isolated rain spells, monsoon season (a temporary time of increased humidity), frequent dust storms, and of course, blazing hot summers where my shop can reach 125F, if left to its own devices. So in these harsh conditions, how would you finish your solid alder front door? For me, the answer lies in something most of us use on a daily basis: our workbenches. Much like your workbench, an Arizona front door will receive a great deal of punishment. And when an item is going to see that much abuse, sometimes the focus has to shift from absolute protection (a losing battle), to repair-ability. And that’s where my special homemade oil/marine varnish blend comes in handy. Watch the video and see what you think.

The product I recommend using in the video is Epifanes Marine Varnish.

Discussion

Michael (muddlermike) April 15, 2008 1:08 am

Great episode Marc – and timely, since I’m considering refinishing some white cedar outdoor furniture this summer. I’ve never used the marine varnish and was curious if there are any other things to consider when using it (other than what’s on the label). The central NY climate is fussy too, in that we have temp ranges from humid 90’s in the summer to dry single digits and below zero in the winter. We get a good deal of precipitation from rain and snow. Would you think the oil/varnish blend would be appropriate for up here or should I consider more varnish and less oil? The usual wood treatments in the northeast include polys and paints, but it’s been my experience that polys can get gummy in the summer sun. The thought that the marine varnish might hold up better is encouraging. Also, to what extent would you think the marine varnish would color the wood – it looks pretty dark in the video.

thanks,

Muddler

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- Joni February 10, 2023 10:19 am
  
  I live in Eastern North Carolina and have had ongoing issues with the exterior of my wood front door. I tried Spar Urethane and within 6 months it was flaking off at the bottom where the sun goes down on it. Also, I use a semi transparent stain. Will your methodology from your video work over a strained exterior wood door? And, love the great info. Thanks!
  
  Reply
thewoodwhisperer April 15, 2008 8:37 am

Hey Mike. The varnish, once diluted a bit really imparts the same amber hue you normally get from an oil-based varnish. Nothing unusual, but obviously a factor on lighter colored woods.

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Bruce April 15, 2008 2:46 pm

Another great podcast Marc – very helpful. What no out takes!

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Vic April 15, 2008 6:28 pm

Is Sylvia calling you with my questions? Timely for me, too. Sounds like a good finish on the “infinity” booth I’m making. I am so not ready
to do a project yet, but my boss told me about this booth one day and asked, “is that something you could make?” We might as well have been playing truth or dare. The next thing I know, I hear someone’s voice that sounds a lot like mine, “Oh sure, no problem. When do you need it?” “In three weeks, yeah I can do that.” GOD,,,I’m such a maroon!

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Quiglag April 15, 2008 6:34 pm

Hey Marc,
I am in the process of building a stand for my BBQ Smoker. I have some redwood that I will be using for the top and sides, but I have no idea on how to finish it. It will have some light food contact, so I don’t want to use a typical deck sealer. Would the food grade finish you used in the cutting board ep. work, or will the outdoor weather eat it up to quickly. It is redwood so it can handle the outdoors, but I want it to last as long as possible.

Thanks,
Chris from SoCal

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Mitch April 15, 2008 9:15 pm

Hi Marc,

Really like your videos. Great info!

At the end of your video you mentioned moist humid climates. What would you use or how would you change this finish to fit that climate?

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thewoodwhisperer April 15, 2008 9:23 pm

MItch, I would probably use the Epifanes varnish straight. If its good enough for a boat, its good enough in humid conditions. :) I might also consider trying clear outdoor paint base. This is just paint without pigment. I have heard this makes an excellent outdoor finish.

Quiglagg, I would probably recommend the straight varnish in your case as well. My only concern is the close proximity to the heat. I’m not sure how well or how long the varnish will stand up to that abuse. I suppose it also depends on the proximity of the stand to the firebox. I am sure you know this, but be very careful since we are talking about wood near heat. We don’t want the whole thing going up in smoke (no pun intended). Bottom line is if the wood is any where near your cook temp (200-250F), no finish in the world is going to survive. As for the concerns about food prep, the varnish will dry to a film that should have no adverse effects on food items. Just keep it clean like any other surface.

I would be curious if anyone else has recommendations for high heat options.

Reply
- Charles Everson July 11, 2018 8:49 pm
  
  Epifanes is a varnish / ting oil blend to start with. I would always add mineral spirits and or naphtha to it to aid in application. I would also do many thin coats on a door (around 10) and that should last for several years. For an outdoor table I did, I put some 2 part epoxy under the Several layers of ephifanes and that made a pretty much invincible clear coat, which has held up very well to continuous rain in Seattle and blazing heat in Phoenix.
  
  Reply
  - Marc Spagnuolo July 16, 2018 4:09 am
    
    Hey Charles. Just a point of clarification. Epifanes is definitely not an oil/varnish blend. If it was, you wouldn’t be able to get away with 10 coats. It is made using tung oil as part of the process, but there’s no raw tung oil in the final blend.
    
    Reply
  - Liz May 22, 2019 2:33 pm
    
    I purchased a home in Charleston SC a yr ago and have been told by a friend that my exterior mahogany doors were likely finished with Epithane….the house and doors are 3 yrs old… finish looks like it is getting lighter on doors with sunlight exposure….will reloading darken the doors? No cracking or splitting at this point…can you pls make suggestion for maintainability no and also wondering if spar varnish can be applied over the Epithane…
    
    Reply
- Josh July 18, 2022 4:07 pm
  
  Hey Marc!
  
  Fairly new homeowners refinishing a front door in Oregon(see: RAIN) and just found your page.
  Would you suggest the same as for Mitch above? Mix of Epifanes and Naphtha?
  Suggestions on mixture amounts?
  I can’t wait to check out more of your stuff!
  Thanks!
  Josh
  
  Reply
Quiglag April 15, 2008 10:24 pm

Thanks for the advice Marc. No worries about the heat. The stand is for an electric smoker that is very well insulated. I can can grab on to it even at its highest temperature without it being hot.

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Steve Carter April 16, 2008 7:50 am

I have used a product called CWF from The Flood Company (http://www.flood.com/flood/) to treat and preserve my redwood decks for the last ten years or so. CWF is a close to the wood finish. It doesnt leave any visible coating on the redwood but protects it from the Texas heat and humidity. One of my decks is cantilevered over the lake putting it into full sun most of the day. I usually put new coat of CWF on the redwood every second year. They have several tinted versions but they are too artificial for my taste.

I also use CWF on my redwood table and planter boxes that are on the deck. Quiglag, Im not sure that it would give the protection that you want for your smoker stand. Id consider making a cutting board that I could use to carry things back and forth from the house. Im afraid that the redwood would be to soft to withstand the use/abuse that it might get otherwise.

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Todd April 16, 2008 1:57 pm

Liked the new episode. I am just curious why you used naptha and not japan dryer. i have heard that boilded linseed oil has some japan dryer in it. Never really verified that though. Maybe because Naptha is cheaper than Japan Dryer or too much Japan dryer is a bad thing??? I await you always insightful response.

Thanks.

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thewoodwhisperer April 16, 2008 7:00 pm

Hey Todd. The naptha was added as a fast-evaporating thinner. The primarily goal being to thin the material out to a wiping formula. The boiled linseed oil already has driers added to it that help promote curing. Adding more could very well be a bad thing. But I don’t often use Japan Drier so I don’t know what the threshold is before something goes wrong. But I don’t think more drier is really necessary for this mix.

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Andres Cuevas April 16, 2008 7:16 pm

Hi Mark, first of all I have to say that I’m always waiting for a new video of TWW. A lot of good information for somebody like me that is learning.

Have you ever used an open pore sealer?

Here in Chile there is a german product called Xyladecor, apart of all the protections to the wood (UV, termites, moisture,etc) this sealer doesn’t form a film in the wood, so it doesn’t crack and after a few years if you need to re-apply the product, you don’t need to sand the surface, just clean it and apply it again.

The Windows of my house have this sealer and I used for a small furniture of my bathroom and the wood looks great. I’m working in the cabinets for my kitchen and I will use Xyladecor there too.

I think that in US you must have a similar product.

Andres.

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Paul-Marcel St-Onge April 17, 2008 10:02 am

For the door in the video, it was already finished in the past with oil so you added one light coat. What if you’re building new furniture for the patio? How many coats would you put on? I’m guessing it would be one coat after the first coat that absorbs evenly.

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Robby April 17, 2008 1:25 pm

Cool,

Nice to see the various houses in Marcs life. Looks like Arizona is nice, especially the weather. Doesnt make things easy for finishing. Some good info Marc, thanks, i m sure i m going to use i sooner or later. BTW Marc, what is that new background we see on the podcasts? Something that is inspired from your visit at Fine Woodworking?

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thewoodwhisperer April 17, 2008 6:59 pm

Hey Paul. For the patio, I would put 2-3 coats on new wood. But I would also make an effort to keep the furniture covered or out of the sun. That will dramatically improve the life of the finish as well as the furniture. But if we are talking full sun exposure, I would treat it exactly the same as a door. 2-3 coats then a light coat every year.

And yes Robby, that is exactly where I got the inspiration from. I love the look of a classic old school wood shop. And unfortunately, it just doesnt make sense in my shop. But on the back wall, where my workbench is, I saw the perfect opportunity for easy wall-hung hand tool storage and a great backdrop for the show.

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thewoodwhisperer April 17, 2008 7:02 pm

Thanks for the product recommendation Andres. There are lots of companies that make outdoor wood protectant, and something you just never really know what you are getting. So whenever possible, I try to keep things simple so that you aren’t dependent on any one companie’s “magic elixer”. And in many cases, if you look closely at the ingredients, you will see that it is actually just common off-the-shelf ingredients. But then again, some company, like the one you mention, might just have some proprietary mixture that kicks butt. If it aint broke, don’t fix it, right?

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MRod April 24, 2008 7:37 pm

Thanks for bringing up this subject. When I originally built my deck 2 years ago there was zero information online/offline for staining decks in the Western States outdoors.

I really wanted a deck that looked super shinny like in those made with Redwood in California.

Your video was very informative and prompted me to search for more answers to rejuvenate for my Colorado sun baked deck.

Bob at Popular Woodworking provides an interesting perspective. He looks at it from what causes the damage to wood. He then goes on to explain what you eluded to in some detail – nice companion to your video. He also goes down the Marine varnish from a Marine store path

http://www.popularwoodworking......g?id=14744

I’ll be trying that Marine store Marine varnish ASAP.

Respectfully,
MRod

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John Cooper June 24, 2008 1:05 pm

Hey Marc,

Any experience using this method on an oily hardwood like teak?

We’re considering buying a teak table/chairs patio set, and wondering how best to preserve its beauty.

Thanks!
-John

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thewoodwhisperer June 25, 2008 9:59 am

Hey John. The first thing to decide is what type of finish you want. You can have a light finish (an outdoor oil is good http://www.rockler.com/product.....;sid=AFN86) that provides moderate protection and relies on teaks natural weather resistance, which also requires more frequent maintenance. Or you can apply a film finish, like Epifanes, that offers significantly more protection and less maintenance.

Option #2 sounds the best, but for some folks that film finish is a deal breaker. If you like the natural look, you are going to want option #1.

Now remember, I use this finish method on my doors here in Arizona, which represents and extreme of heat and sunlight. You didn’t mention your climate so your situation may be different than mine. Email me and we can go into some more detail.

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Karl Smith August 19, 2008 11:42 am

Hey Marc,
Where did you pickup that Epifanes in Phoenix? The only place I’ve seen industrial finishes is at Spellman’s and Superior, and I don’t recall seeing any spar/marine varnishes.

I’m in the valley, and my project as soon as the heat breaks is to strip/stain/finish our front door. So I have a while to wait ;)

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thewoodwhisperer August 19, 2008 8:34 pm

Hey Karl. I don’t pick it up locally. I order mine from Jamestown Distributors:
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com

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Steve Carter September 9, 2008 10:37 am

Several weeks ago I refinished an outdoor table using your Outdoor Finish. The table top is made from wood taken from a Canadian brewery floor. Over the years it had started to look pretty bad.

I started out by removing all the old finish and running the top through my drum sander. After several coats of the Outdoor Finish the table top looked fantastic â

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Susan October 13, 2008 1:14 am

Marc, You may be a godsend. We live in the Phoenix area and our house is two years old. I need to refinish the exterior vigas. Can I use your desert outdoor finish for them? They have been stained previously, but it is very worn. Could I add a little oil base wood stain to your finish? I don’t want them to look opaque, just darker like they were to begin with. Also, some of them have developed cracks. Is that a prpblem?

Reply
thewoodwhisperer October 16, 2008 1:02 pm

Hi Susan. You sure can use this formula. I actually opted for more varnish in my mix when I did our vigas. I really wont be able to recoat them every year so I wanted a little more protection, and went lighter on the oil.
You can add some stain to the finish, but I am not a big fan of doing that. Oil based finishes just aren’t a great medium for coloring. The results are usually not great. Now if you are just trying to darken things a bit, I suppose you could try it. But again, not my favorite way of applying color. If you can stain the bare wood, that would be the best way to go. If you do decide to add a little stain, you should try it on a hidden area of the pole just to see how it turns out and if it even makes any difference.

As for the cracks, well, I guess you could fill them, but that would be a heck of a job and it would probably look terrible. I have cracks in every one of my poles and I simply use a brush to get the varnish into the crack and seal the wood up from the inside. But the crack itself remains.

Hope that helps.

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cahudson42 January 30, 2009 5:41 pm

Marc,

I’ve just found the ‘woodwhisperer’ so I apologize if already covered.

I live in Florida in Winter – and Adirondacks in Summer.

Your AZ outdoor finishing approach is very close to what I have used for years both places. First off – here in FL and even in NY – I do not use any ‘raw oils’ – BLO or Tung – because of the moisture. You will get black – black mildew if you do.

I take a good ‘old fashioned’ phenolic-based (never urethane) marine varnish with UV inhibitors. (Ace Hardwae up here has one). I then dilute 50-50 with mineral spirits (I don’t feel I need to rush it with Naptha and prefer that it really soak in)

I wipe it – or spray it – on. Wipe down/push in immediately. Maybe 3 coats or so between very light sanding.. Not a film finish. Let it soak in.

Have had for years on Adk chairs etc. White pine and Western Red Cedar mostly.

Regards,
Chris

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Jan July 7, 2009 2:56 pm

Sorry, I have a question about your last response. I looked at the website and it appears that this varnish you are recommeding is very shiny and glossy. That would totally take away from the character of this old mexican piece of furniture. Plus, it is carved all around the edges, so I don’t want to sand it down before applying a coat of anything. Am I missing something? Thanks for your clarification.

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer July 7, 2009 3:42 pm
  
  Hey Jan. You’ll find that most of these outdoor finishes are glossy. The gloss reflects the light better and makes the finish a little more UV resistant. But you can usually still get these finishes in a different sheen. Epifanes sells a low gloss varnish that you can use instead of the high gloss: http://www.jamestowndistributo.....te+Varnish
  
  So the matte version might be a good option for your Mexican pieces. I would still dilute it a little bit with mineral spirits so that it can soak into all those nooks and crannies. And 2-3 coats should offer you a vast improvement in protection, without giving too much of an artificial look.
  
  Reply
  - Theo March 30, 2010 10:58 am
    
    I watched the video and love it. We are also in Phoenix and have a large exterior Mahogany door that needs maintenance.
    
    I’m looking at the Epifanes varnishes and they come in high gloss (WFG1000) and matte (WFM1000). In the video, you didn’t specify which product you used, but in this comment, you stated that they are usually glossy varnishes and that the glossy reflects more of the UV rays. For an outdoor mahogany front door that gets tremendous sunlight, do you recommend the glossy or the matte varnish?
    
    THANKS!
    
    Reply
    - thewoodwhisperer March 30, 2010 1:43 pm
      
      I used the gloss product. Unless you specifically don’t want the look of gloss, that’s what I would recommend using.
Douglas J. Mason April 15, 2010 8:23 pm

I have lived here in AZ. for 33 years now and just like you
I learned from some elders. The difference is I use a bit less marine varnish, a touch more boiled linseed, and
turpentine (not synthetic). The turp. allows the wood to absorb more and you decrease the turp. with subsequent coats. I have a redwood screen door that originally received 5 coats and has not been touched for the previous 8 years. I think that it might need to be done next year.
We’ll see. The screen door is simular to yours shaded with some direct sun.
Yours, Doug, Lake Havasu City, AZ.
P.S. Do you have a particular hard or semi, wood that you use for outdoor applications (park benches, etc)?

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Tyler June 23, 2010 2:20 pm

I live in UT and am going to use this finish on some outdoor esposed beams. How much time would you recommend in between coats.

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer June 23, 2010 2:37 pm
  
  I would guess at 24 hours or so. If they are still tacky, I wouldn’t recoat. And if you are doing more than 2 coats, I would lay off the oil component for the final coats, since that will have a tough time drying over sealed wood.
  
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Nick A July 19, 2010 8:00 am

I wish I would have found this a year ago when I was putting my new front door up. I put a poly. on not knowing any better. So not looking forward to having to strip it down in a couple of years, but at least I know better know. Great video by the way.

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craig turner October 11, 2010 8:28 am

I live in Ireland and not sure about the availability of buying naptha over the counter – I realise naptha is an oil-based product but is it being used as a diluter for the varnish? Would cellulose thinners or white spirit achieve the same result?

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- thewoodwhisperer October 11, 2010 8:34 am
  
  I do believe white spirits will work for thinning. I don’t know much about cellulose thinners, but from the little bit of info I just read via Google, I don’t think it would be appropriate for thinning of a varnish.
  
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Douglas J. Mason October 11, 2010 8:13 pm

How’s come you never answered my Question?

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer October 11, 2010 8:48 pm
  
  I just missed it Douglas. Sorry about that. To answer your question, there are a number of woods that are naturally good outside. Things like teak and cedar, for instance. But another wood that’s relatively easy to find and very hard, is white oak. That might be a good choice for you.
  
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Chris V. November 4, 2010 9:55 pm

Great video. I live in Las Vegas and am considering buying wood doors for my house.

My front door gets direct morning sun. If I were to just use linseed oil, could I just wipe it on onece a year or do I need to use this mix and sand before putting it on?

If I should use this mix, how thorough do you need to be with the sanding? I am mostly concerned about the creavices.

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer November 5, 2010 8:12 am
  
  Hey Chris. Which one you use is completely up to you. If you use linseed oil, you’ll definitely be applying it once a year. And you’ll probably want to sand lightly before applying the oil. But the door will have less protection and it will look a little dull.
  
  If you use the formula in this video, you can probably go a couple years in between finishing sessions and the door tends to look “finishes”, and less dull. This finish also requires some sanding before applying. The sanding produces a nice smooth surface for the finish to bind to, resulting in a smoother end product. So how much you sand depends on how smooth you want your door to be when its all said and done.
  
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Chris V. November 5, 2010 10:01 pm

Thanks,

I guess that I will use your formula as I probably cannot avoid the light sanding.

Chris

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Theo Mandel November 6, 2010 10:47 pm

We followed your recommendations on staining/sealing a brand new mahogany exterior door with the Epifanes marine finish.

The only problem is that we waited too long to apply the finish to the raw wood and the door is now bowed from side-to-side.

I left the door lying on the garage floor all summer with concrete blocks on either side to try to straighten out the bow, but it has not helped.

I am wondering If I sand down the door edge all the way around and leave it exposed to the Arizona heat and humidity, is there a chance the door will ever straighten out? Maybe even use a humidifier in the garage?

Any advice is greatly appreciated! This is a brand-new $1,500 door and I hate to have it ruined!

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- thewoodwhisperer November 6, 2010 11:44 pm
  
  Oh boy, that doesn’t sound good. I don’t suppose there is any way the door is still under a warranty? Problem is, once a big door like that warps, its difficult if not impossible to straighten it back out in any permanent fashion. Many times, even if you get the door to flatten out, the warp eventually returns. This is true of small doors on furniture and perhaps even truer for doors where the wood is thicker and even more difficult to “re-train”. But if you were going to try it, I would start by placing some moist towels on the cupped side. In other words, put the towel in the cup itself. The moisture will cause the wood fibers to expand and the curve may reverse. You might even try to use clamps to help reverse the curve. Once the wood is hold the curve in the other direction, remove the towels. This could take a day or two so you might need to periodically add some moisture to the towels. Now after the door is dry again, remove it from the clamps and see what happens, if anything.
  
  Also keep in mind if the door now has finish on it, this process won’t really work. You need the moisture to hit the raw wood.
  
  Reply
Laura M March 15, 2011 9:44 am

Hi. We are in Phoenix, up on North Mountain, and we are just put in a new Redwood deck…my husband wants to leave the redwood plain with no finish…just sanded. We both love the look of weathered redwood. And we don’t want it glossy or painted looking. But I am concerned about not finishing it. We don’t have any water/mildew issues, but it will get hot direct sun – a lot of it. We have solid mahogany front doors, and refinished those last year and just used oil on them. They look great, but I have to oil them every year. I don’t want to do that with the deck…it’s kind of large!
What’s your recommendation?

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer March 15, 2011 10:40 pm
  
  Well, that’s a tough call. Do I think it should be finished? Yes. But its not my deck. :) If you husband likes the natural aging of redwood, then there isn’t much you can do. As you already know, an oil finish gives you a more “natural” look, but requires more care. Anything that would truly protect the wood would also build a film, taking away from the natural look.
  
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Mike Corwin September 3, 2011 10:47 am

Hey Marc – What is the difference between using minera spirits instead of naptha in the 3 part blend?

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- thewoodwhisperer September 3, 2011 11:25 am
  
  Mineral spirits will give you more working time than naptha. That’s about it.
  
  Reply
Mike Corwin September 3, 2011 2:09 pm

Cool, thanks. Ever add any Trans Tint concentrate into this 3 part blend? Any issues you could see with doing that?

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 3, 2011 3:18 pm
  
  As far as I know, Transtint doesn’t list oils as being compatible. You might have some issues there.
  
  Reply
Mike Corwin September 14, 2011 9:22 pm

Hey Marc – I just made an outdoor bench from reclaimed doug fir. I planed, sanded and applied the three part finish today and was wondering how long you wait between recoating. Also, are you sanding between coats? Thanks very much for the help.

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- thewoodwhisperer September 15, 2011 9:07 am
  
  Well, you should wait until it is dry. Apply the coats thin, wiping off the excess, and they should dry within 24 hrs. The key is thin coats though. And I would say you can give it a light sanding after the second coat if you feel the surface and it has some dust nibs.
  
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Ann December 3, 2011 11:28 am

We are planning to build a pavilion in the Chihuahua Desert area using Southern Yellow Pine for the decking. There will be a metal roof covering it with a 2′ overhang in each direction. The ground banks up several feet in the south and west and is unlikely to take any direct sun. Can you give us advise on precautions we should take or if we should abandon the idea of wood altogether – be fore we sign on the dotted line for this.

Thankyou for any advise you can offer.

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer December 3, 2011 12:34 pm
  
  Hey Ann. I honestly don?t know that I am the best person to address this question. I specialize in small furniture and I pretty much extended that knowledge to an exterior door for this video, which is not all that different than an outdoor chair. But that?s about where my experience ends when it comes to outdoor structures. When you?re talking about large scale things like decks and pavilions, the game changes because the things I normally do are no longer practical or cost effective. Someone who deals in decking or even a general contractor might be in a better position to give you solid advice. Sorry I couldn?t be more help.
  
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Bryan in NJ January 11, 2012 11:57 am

Marc, Happy New Year! I’m in the planning stages of building a mailbox stand with Greene & Greene details -based on a more basic arts & crafts design. The box portion of the stand will be hard maple and I haven’t decided on what wood I will use for the bottom. Ideally, Ipe or cedar, but I’ll probably settle on Oak or walnut to keep the costs down. Anyway, I want the natural wood colors and grain to show, so I’ve been researching boat finishes because I want something that looks great, yet is lower maintenance than deck finish, particulary for the NJ climate. So what experience do you have with epoxy sealer as a primer? FWW has a great article touting the combination of MultiWoodPrime (epoxy sealer) by Smith & Company and Epiphanes; the article is called “A Durable Exterior Finish” (Sept./Oct 2005). Since these finishes are more on the expensive side, I want to know what to expect before I spend money. What kind of wood color changes can I expect with the epoxy sealer? If my aim is to get a tung oil color, how would the epoxy affect the aborption of something like Waterlox or should Waterlox be applied first? Or perhaps pure tung oil, then epoxy, then Epiphanes. How much maintenance should I expect once the project is installed? Obviously, this is confusing me, so I appreciate your help. Thanks, brother!

-Bryan

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer January 11, 2012 1:21 pm
  
  Hey Bryan. When in doubt, try to keep things as simple as possible. No reason to use oil on this project since pure oil offers very little protection outdoors. I actually like the FWW recommendation. CPES is an incredibly cool product as it absorbs into the grain and makes the wood impenetrable to moisture. If you’re real generous with this stuff around the end grain, you’ll be even better off. Once the epoxy dries, you can begin coating with Epifanes. This will be a very thick protective finish, similar to what you might see on a boat hand rail. The color effect is similar to a standard oil-based finish, bringing a nice amber tone to the wood.
  
  Now you can also use something like waterlox, but I wouldn’t bother if the ultimate goal is to use Epifanes.
  
  Reply
Richard June 18, 2012 7:44 pm

I live in Las Vegas where the climate is similar to AZ. I am going to build a pergola outside from Douglas Fir. Wood cost = ~$275. Out of Redwood con heart wood cost ~$1,800. I expect that the look of the doug fir will be improved by a solid color latex paint over an undercoat.

If it was redwood, I would leave it natural. Cedar is not an option as it is not available in Souther Nevada and to have it shipped in would cost about the same as redwood.

Any thoughts on how best to protect the finished product so I don’t have to re-paint every 2-3 years?

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- thewoodwhisperer June 18, 2012 8:28 pm
  
  Hey Richard. That’s a bit out of my wheelhouse. I don’t work much with paint or anything on that scale. I would hit up one of the woodworking forums to see if you can get some opinions from folks who are more familiar with paint in super hot climates.
  
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Matt August 14, 2012 4:49 pm

Hey Marc,
I also live in AZ and am in the process of refinishing my wooden front entry doors but im am having to totally strip everything because of the condition. I’ve already stripped, sanded, and used wood epox(abatron) to fill some cracks. I am now about to stain the outer with a more natural color and the interior side with a darker stain. I’ve already purchased the Epifanes clear varnish and Epifanes Wood Finish Matte, linseed oil and VMandP Naphtha. I plan on putting about 4-5 coats of glossy and 2 coats of the matte on the outside. Interior same concept but not as many coats.
I think since you first published this was about 4 years ago…..Any update on the mixture or what you prefer to use now? Have you used the matte with the same mixture parts?
Thank you, Matt

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- thewoodwhisperer August 15, 2012 11:02 am
  
  Hey Matt. The one thing I would be cautious of is how many coats you apply. You may find that after a few coats, the finish starts to get really tacky. What happens is the varnish component starts to seal the wood. So after about 2 coats, the oil component doesn’t absorb as well and you have issue with drying. So if you want a thicker film, leave the oil completely out of the equation. Or perhaps just try a smaller number of coats.
  
  And no I haven’t used matte before but there shoudn’t be much of an issue with that.
  
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Shari October 16, 2012 4:50 pm

Hey Marc, I am researching how to go about refinishing our front entry door which I expect is solid oak. The house is about 24 years old and the door has been neglected. It’s very dry and the grain is very open. There is also tannin bleed on the exterior side. After having watched some of your videos I noticed one on pore filling and was wondering if I should do this to the door on the exterior side where the grain is very open. Also, I was wondering what to do about the tannin bleed. I’m very thankful that I found your site!

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- thewoodwhisperer October 17, 2012 10:02 am
  
  To be honest, I haven’t dealt with tannin bleed very much. But I hear it can be an ongoing issue for oil and water-based systems and even paint. So you might look into some forums that specialize in outdoor decks/fences and see if someone there has good advice in that regard. As far as the pore-filling goes, that is really only cosmetic. So if you want the surface to look/feel perfectly smooth, you’ll have no choice but to do a pore-fill. If it doesn’t matter to you, then save yourself the time and effort and simply give the door a few coats of new finish. Of course, be sure to sand it down thoroughly before applying anything. That might even help tone down the intensity of the grain lines you’re seeing.
  
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Jesse October 17, 2012 2:44 pm

Hi Marc,
I have a (what I think is) a solid laminate Douglas Fur double front door. 2″ thick and very heavy. I moved into this home not to long ago. I live in New Mexico and the door has been fairly neglected over the past 20 years. I have recently used linseed oil and naphtha mixture on it to help preserve and renew the look which is looking pretty good considerring how dry the wood was
I am worried because the doors seem to be cupping on the outside, not too much yet but about 1/8″ or more deflection in the middle of the door at the top and the laminate seems are seperating slightly toward the bottom of the door. These are very expensive and very custom doors that I never want to replace. I don’t mind the yearly maintenance of just using oil. My concern is the cupping and seperation of the laminate seems. Is there anything you could suggest I do to help preserve and or renew the doors? I can also provide photos of what I am talking about if this is not clear. Love the advice on your site so far, you are a true pro. This particular video about dry hot climates is very helpful.

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Roger Mead December 14, 2012 11:29 am

I really have no commment on this i just wanna win router bits.

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Douglas June 12, 2013 8:14 am

Hi Mark, it’s been 5 years since this post, and I was curious about how you feel about your formula/mixture after all that time. How is it holding up? Any changes you’d make? I have an exterior door project coming up, using qtr sawn white oak, and absolutely don’t want to paint the outside. I like your approach and reasoning in this, and just wanted to hear how time has treated it.

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- Marc Spagnuolo June 12, 2013 2:34 pm
  
  Well, I haven’t lived in that house for years now but when I left it was still in good shape. Though I admittedly didn’t recoat it as I should have. In spite of that, it held up pretty well. But it isn’t a maintenance-free finish so I really should have given it a fresh coat every 1-2 years. The one thing to be careful of though is the fact that over time, the door becomes very well sealed. So the oil component in the finish can create drying problems, primarily because there are no open fibers to absorb the oil. It just sits on the surface. So one thing you can do when reapplying finish periodically is to apply it thin. Don’t really flood the surface so much as just buff the material in. And over time it might be better to go a little heavier on the varnish and lighter on the oil.
  
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  - Douglas June 13, 2013 4:27 pm
    
    Thanks for reply and update, Marc, sounds like good advice.
    
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valerie June 16, 2013 10:21 pm

Thank you for the video! I live in NM and have a porch that I would like to protect. The bottom 3rd of the beams are exposed to water from the sprinklers. Any ideas?

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- Marc Spagnuolo June 17, 2013 5:46 am
  
  Redirect the sprinklers? :) It’s not an ideal situation but protecting them with a high quality marine varnish should help.
  
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Joshua Walter August 29, 2013 10:11 pm

First thanks for being an amazing resource.

I’m installing a bench seating system for the outdoor patio of my coffee shop in Las Vegas. Partial Shade from a soon to be built pergola. I don’t know the type of wood but it’s construction grade 2″x 12″ that’s been belt sanded smooth.

Your technique looks very appealing but I plan to apply a stain before the finish. Would a stain (minwax) cause any issues with this method?

Also, how do you feel about this finish in regards durability in a commercial use/high traffic environment?

Thanks again for all of your videos. Very inspirational for a DIY business owner looking to set themselves apart from the corporate chains.

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AJ September 28, 2013 8:44 am

Question about using the linseed oil/naphtha/varnish blend… Looking to apply to an outdoor table. the top is untreated walnut and the base is a water based dark stain with a built in UV sealer. You think this blend can be applied to both the base and top? May not be needed as much on the base, but wouldn’t mind a bit more richness or gloss in the tone of the base. Thanks A

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- Marc Spagnuolo September 29, 2013 4:48 pm
  
  I generally don’t like finishing stained wood with oil/varnish blends. Stains really benefit from a protective film and an oil/varnish blend doesn’t leave much of a film on the surface. So for stained projects, I would leave out the oil and use the varnish full strength or diluted for wiping.
  
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Allison Watling November 2, 2013 1:49 pm

We live in Castle Rock, CO. We are building a flagstone patio and are purchasing Adirondack chairs to en-circle a fire pit. We were going to purchase pre-finished chairs, but are thinking it might be best to buy unfinished and treat ourselves. Can you recommend a type of wood for the chairs and a formula for finishing them. One that will withstand the dryness and intense sun. Thanks!

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Franke Gill March 6, 2014 4:41 pm

Your procedure lives on, enjoyed it. I need to finish the brand new mahogany front door for my son and daughter in law so this better work (or she will kill me). My husband was the woodworker but I picked up a lot over the years so I’m going to give it a try!
I got the Epiphanes varnish and the boiled linseed oil. Now for a few questions.
1. I’m considering using Mineral Spirits instead of Naptha so that it will have more time to soak into the new wood. I saw you told someone else the ms was fine to use.
Which type of mineral spirits would be best–there is low odor regular type and then there is the “green” type which is supposedly safer and less flammable? (Both are from Klean-Strip). The interior of the door will be finished with the same mixture. Is there some reason not to use the “green” product?
2. Since the door is new I would like to get the material to soak in very well so I thought maybe go light on the varnish at first in the mixture and after a couple or 3 coats up the varnish a little. Is that a good plan?
Thanks a bunch for any help you can give me.

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- Marc Spagnuolo March 7, 2014 10:20 am
  
  Stay away from the green stuff. It’s milky in consistency and I don’t like it for clear finishing. So go with the good old low odor mineral spirits.
  
  And you can certainly do as you mention, but it sounds like extra work to me. The oil is only going to soak in so deep so multiple high-oil coats probably isn’t necessary. If I can make a recommendation here, it would be to try these finishes out on scrap pieces of wood. When you incorporate oil into the mix, it dramatically slows down the dry time. In an extreme condition like my house here in AZ, this mixture remains flexible and easily repairable without building a thick film. In your situation, you might not have the same concerns and you could be better served with nothing but a few coats of Epifanes. So I would set up a few test boards to look at oil/varnish mixes and straight (or simply diluted) varnish. This will give you an idea of the dry time associated with the finish and will make sure there are no surprises.
  
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Franke Gill March 7, 2014 12:59 pm

Thanks for the warning on the green stuff.
Wish I had some pieces of the mahogany to test on but maybe I can try the edges of the door where it doesn’t show to test a little.
Forgot to mention we are in Dallas so it isn’t as dry as in AZ but it gets dry enough to crack finishes on outdoor wood and with 2 kids in the mix it needs to be repairable.
I think I’ll go with at least some mix of oil/solvent/varnish since I think the look is more what they want. Seems like if I go that route in the future we can go more toward the varnish look but if you go with the straight varnish first you can’t easily go back to the rubbed look, right?
Again, thanks. You might literally be saving a life here!!!!!!

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Colleen March 15, 2014 12:01 pm

Hi Marc,

I just watched your Desert Outdoor finish video. We live in Palm Desert, CA a similar climate to AZ. Three years ago we completely refinished our garage door using your Epifanes recommendation. We were very pleased with the result. This last year we had peeling on a few of the boards slats. We think it is because it gets the most intense sun. Anyway, we decided to redo it again. Last time we used the Epifanes with 50% mineral spirit dilution. In the video you recommend Naptha,BLO and Epifanes solution. Do you think we should try this the second time around? We are using a Sherwin Williams exterior semi transparent stain first. Thanks for your time and all your great advice!

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- Marc Spagnuolo March 16, 2014 7:59 pm
  
  Hey Colleen. I’m a little surprise that you had peeling. Only because this finish is high on oil and low on varnish and usually doesn’t build enough of a film to result in peeling. But weirder things have happened. But three years in direct CA sun isn’t all that bad really. I see no reason you can’t use the same finish again this time around if you wanted to. Remember these finishes are on a gradient. If you want more protection and a thicker film, use less thinner and no oil. If you want a lighter duty finish that can be easily repaired, go with the oil/varnish/thinner blend.
  
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  - Colleen March 17, 2014 2:25 am
    
    Got it. Thank you for all your advice again!! It has served us well.
    
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Karen March 24, 2014 9:02 am

Hi Mike,
Just stumbled across your video and have decided to use your formulafor my east facing solid oak door here in North Dallas. I have spent DAYS stripping old poly off and am more than ready to use something that won’t have to be stripped away completely in a couple of years! I am planning on putting a light coat of an oil-based stain on the door before coating with the Epifanes mix. Should I go lighter on the BLO then? Thanks for a great video and the helpful direction

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- Marc Spagnuolo March 24, 2014 4:03 pm
  
  I would. Or cut it out all together. With a stain on the door, it’s a good idea to have a nice film on top for more protection. If you don’t, the stain has a better chance of fading over time or rubbing/wearing off. So I’d probably just thin out the Epifanes and apply as per the instructions on the can. You certainly may be looking at a refinishing job in the future, but not for years to come.
  
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Dave May 1, 2014 6:38 pm

Hi and thanks for your services!
We’re in Tucson and are wondering if we can use this mixture on a Pickett fence?

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- Marc Spagnuolo May 1, 2014 6:40 pm
  
  You could, but it might be an expensive solution depending on the amount of fence you need to cover.
  
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Chris May 7, 2014 9:24 am

Thanks again for this info. This is a huge help. It took a lot of time to remove the original finish and this mixture is a great replacement.

I applied the finish in Las Vegas in 2012 and I am now re-applying today. This really works and the doors look great. The interior still look new. I get partial sun (eastern exposure and overhangs) and it lasted 2 years. Full sun might require yearly applications, but it is so easy to do.

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Jack & Julie December 7, 2014 12:52 pm

We used this for our vega’s, wood columns, wood accents and are now doing the front door. We did the Vega’s and and other wood end of this summer and it looks beautiful! We decided on several coats on the wood columns after sanding them, giving it different color textures, resulting in a beautiful rustic look with a slight gloss. The recipe in your video is perfect for protection without that thick, tacky, shiny varnish look. Thank you so much for posting this video!

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Honora February 13, 2015 12:30 pm

Hi Marc,

I am a first time mom looking to buy a baby crib and I wanted to know which type of wood frame would you recommend for a baby crib in the desert? I currently live in Arizona and will be moving to Nevada. So, I’m looking for durability, stability, and solidarity. Thank you for answering my questions in advanced.

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Michelle R February 28, 2015 4:51 pm

I built an outdoor patio table from pine that is under a patio but will be exposed to the evening sun (brutal, as you know). I “stained” the wood using a vinegar/steel wool mixture and I love the natural, non-glossy finish. However, I know the table won’t survive long in that sun. I like your suggested mixture of varnish/oil. I went to the epifane website and saw that there is a matte finish item. Would this be alright to use? Or, any other suggestions for avoiding a high gloss look? Thank you!

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- Marc Spagnuolo March 1, 2015 8:29 am
  
  That’s probably the way to go. I have a can of the matte stuff too but haven’t yet used it. Seems like it’s perfectly fine to use it as the primary finish.
  
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Krina Van Ry March 31, 2015 8:39 pm

Hi Marc,

I am finishing a redwood gate. I live in the Green Valley, AZ. The gate will get full sun. The wood is very pale so I plan to use a cherry stain it so it appears as an old Mexican door. Could I use oil based stain and then follow with your recipe?
Any suggestions?

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D Bana April 7, 2015 11:40 am

Marc,
We live in the high desert of southern New Mexico and we are planning to build a pergola that would be exposed to the hot sun about 3/4 of the day. What would you suggest to stain and finish the wood?Refinishing every 2or 3 years is not an option.

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- Marc Spagnuolo April 7, 2015 5:26 pm
  
  Well that might be a little outside of my wheelhouse. My finishing knowledge is limited to small scale items that can be worked on as-needed. What I usually recommend isn’t all that practical or cost-effective on a larger scale. And there are so many products in the world of deck finishes and sealants that I can’t even point you in the right direction. Sorry about that.
  
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Liz April 21, 2015 12:19 pm

Hi Marc,
Help!
Decided to follow your AZ door video on my Tucson south-facing door – bad sun damage on bottom half. But, over-sanded & turns out it has/had veneer (fir?) – thought I’d figured that out, oops. (I can send photos)

Is there any way to hide the joins in the wood underneath? They’re visible on bottom half under door handle.

Also put a coat of BLO+min spirits on it & now have blotchy look (diff wood & damage?) – put a little danish oil in with BLO mix on bottom as experiment (just enough to make a slurry – even added light colored sawdust from 1st sanding) – it filled darkened sun damage cracks, but accentuated black color (didn’t have much luck with spot bleaching or fillers).
Saw video where you tinted a filler, spread over entire surface & sanded (which one was it?)– if that would help, don’t know how I’d tint properly.
Would blotchy wood video method work/help now? I prefer to keep color as light as possible (originally, door just had danish oil finish).

btw, I practiced AZ door method on hideous adjacent windowsill that I don’t care about & turned out great….
Thanks for your amazing website & help!

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Joel August 24, 2015 2:39 pm

Hi Marc,

I have a 25′ x 6′ fence of new bamboo to treat and wonder whether your formula would do the trick. The fence will be subject more to deterioration from Minnesota moisture than sunlight. I was hoping not to have to buy two gallons of Epifane to keep the fence looking bright.

Thanks for your continuing advice to woodworkers. Joel

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Chris September 7, 2015 6:39 pm

Hey Marc,

Customer insisted I use BLO/turp/varnish mix on exterior red cedar siding. We did so on first coat, thin, rubbing off any excess. Brought cedar color out well which he wanted. My question is with follow up second coat, does it make any sense to add BLO to final mixture or should turp/varnish mix for second coat be just fine. I’m curious if it will be just fine leaving it out as final coats more about protection/UV resistance…Thanks

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Chris September 7, 2015 7:22 pm

Hi Marc,

Client insisted we use BLO/turp/varnish mix on his red cedar siding. We did thin coat, wiped excess. Brought back that red cedar color nicely. My question is about final coating. Is it necessary to add BLO with final coats since they are more for protection/UV. Is a turp/varnish mix fine to coat over original mixture. Thanks

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Jan September 28, 2015 7:04 am

Hi Marc,
I have large pine vigas that surround my back patio and front door entry here in Mesa. My question for you is since these vigas were stained originally, I want to keep them the color they are. Should I add some kind of a stain product to the formula mentioned above?

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Daniel November 10, 2015 2:23 pm

Very well done video, thank you! I’m a total woodworking noob living in Tucson and wondering if your three-part finish would be the way to go on an outdoor picnic table that I just bought. It’s untreated Southern Yellow Pine wood, and I’d like to maintain the raw look as much as possible. I already bought the linseed oil intending to use only that, before I watched your video. Obviously, going with the oil alone would be easiest, but I’d be nervous about getting some of it on the clothes when sitting on the benches. What are your thoughts on applying the BLO alone vs. using your desert finish for this job vs. something different altogether?

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Lisa Maynard February 26, 2016 1:06 pm

Wondering if I could get any guidance on the best product and/or the best way to seal an outdoor cedar sandbox in Phoenix

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George Herman April 4, 2016 1:48 pm

Thanks for the video. I’m coating an antique cedar strip canoe which is hung outside for decoration and has a previous varnish finish on it. I’ll sand it down and use your mixture, but I’m wondering how many layers to put on for the first year’s application.

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Tamara Staton May 9, 2016 9:15 pm

Great video and info, thanks!
We are in Portland Oregon, creating a new and bigger front porch that will be exposed to both hot summer sun and winter rain. I just treated my new Cedar with timber pro transparent stain, sealant and Protestant, but haven’t been so impressed with how it looks over time on our deck. How do you think your mixture would do under these conditions? Timber pro is a bio oil water transported, so I’m wondering if the linseed can soak in? Thanks!

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Chelsey Prescott October 5, 2016 9:34 pm

I live in Northern Utah and finished my solid Alder wood door with this technique last year, it is time to re-up. It looks beautiful, I have no complaints on the look, and I don’t mind reapplying this mix once a year. My only concern is that over the winter this last year (1st year the door has been up, I haven’t had a wood door before so I really don’t have a point of reference) the door swelled and was very tight and hard to open/close. My dad said wood doors just do this in the cold, but I was wondering if I should be adding something to this mix or if swelling is just something that wood doors normally do?

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- Marc Spagnuolo October 6, 2016 6:55 am
  
  Your dad is right. Solid doors swell. A thicker finish might help slow down that process and could prevent swelling to some extent, but I wouldn’t get my hopes up. The wood will still take in and lose moisture with the seasons but the thicker film will slow that process down.
  
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Donna Burch October 25, 2016 7:26 am

Hi Marc. I live in Kentucky where the summers are both hot and humid, and the winters can be harsh. I have stripped 60 years of paint off the pine front doors that get a lot of sun. Would your BLO / Epifanes / Mineral Spirits mixture work for the door? How many coats? And do I need to prep the doors in any way since they are 60 years old? Or should I just use an Epifanes / Mineral Spirits mixture? I’m looking for both protection and ease of upkeep each year.
Thanks in advance, Donna

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Kelli McNaughton November 10, 2016 10:12 am

Just for others info…One year ago I finished 2 new firs doors, that I first sealed with shellac, a dye, a stain, and then top coated with epifanes diluted with mineral spirits. I put on 8 layers waiting 24 hours between ea application. I followed epifanes directions to start with gloss and did the last 2 in matte finish. It was my understanding from the video that the boiled linseed oil wasn’t an option after the shellac and stain. The old door had been damaged by rain and I suppose sun.

The epifanes coated South facing doors are absolutely gorgeous. They get a LOT of sun in the winter and rain during monsoon.
Sad to say the finish is starting to crack a bit. The lintels I coated with linseed oil are fine. I am just now getting around to topcoating the door frames. I dyed one of the frames last fall and it looks unchanged. I am going to try linseed oil, mineral spirits and epifanes as my topcoat.

Our experience is that rain greys the wood and the sun cracks finishes.
At our old house we had a varnished door destroyed by the sun. We were told to just use stain and linseed oil and reapply yearly as needed. Since we moved away I have no idea how it turned out. I thought the marine varnish would work but apparently it also can’t handle the heat. It did do great during monsoon season this year and we did get a lot of rain.
Kelli from Albuquerque, NM

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Kelli McNaughton November 10, 2016 10:15 am

edit

I thought epifanes with mineral spirits would work but apparantly it can’t handle the heat.

We are hoping the mineral spirits, linseed oil, epifanes combe will hold up better.

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Mark H March 30, 2017 2:08 pm

Aloha Marc,
Honolulu’s weather is nearly perfect and our next project here is a large pair (65 sq ft) of quarter-sawn ribbon Sapele (over LVL core) doors.

Though we have roof overhang (the doors will rarely see rain), the bottoms of these 10′ tall doors will catch our afternoon sun beginning at about 3 pm. As such, we need a durable UV resistant finish, that we will religiously refresh each year.

I plan to raise the grain, fill with tinted Timbermate, and dye the Sapele for uniform color. I believe we will brush finish lightly thinned gloss Epifanes spar varnish (say 6-8 coats) and “may” rub out the final coat to a 1200 grit satin.

Our priorities are – in descending order:
1. Protect the wood and dye from UV
2. Refinish-ability by lightly sanding and rubbing-on a satin spar varnish each year
3. Preservation of the Sapele’s ribbon iridescence

So, does this finish make sense, especially the brush-on original gloss coats and rub-on satin refresh part?

Many thanks for your very professional and informative instructional videos and blog. They are a welcome gift to the woodworking community!
Aloha,
Mark

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Vin June 5, 2017 10:50 pm

Hi Marc,

This video answered almost every question I had for finishing my white ash outdoor table, so thanks for that!

I do one question about the basics, though – what function does the oil have in an oil/varnish/thinner blend? The ideal finish for my table would have zero ambering, feel like natural rough wood, and protect the table from the mild heat swings and humidity on a covered Northern California balcony. I test finished pieces of scrap, one with a Epifanes/Tung/Mineral Spirits blend and the other with a simple 50/50 Epifanes/Mineral spirits wipe (both test pieces got two coats). They both feel relatively natural, not plasticky, but the one with tung oil is noticeably more amber. Does that mean I should skip the oil? If it is just for tone I’d prefer to skip it, but if the oil somehow helps the finish penetrate deeper and have less chances of becoming plasticky over the years I’d definitely tolerate the amber hue.

Thanks!
Vin

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Jose I Rivera July 21, 2017 11:52 am

Hi. What would use for varnishing a wooden fence in the Texas heat?

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- Marc Spagnuolo July 21, 2017 3:17 pm
  
  Probably something like what was used in this video, it not too cost-prohibitive.
  
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bob thompson December 6, 2017 5:31 pm

I have built a outdoor dining table out of 3″ X 12″ western red cedar. It will be under pergola but have direct late afternoon sun plus normal dining wear. I plan to use Smith’s penetrating epoxy as a primer. Is your mixture what I should be looking at for Goodyear Az?
Thanks
Bob

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Belinda March 29, 2018 12:05 pm

I live in southeastern Arizona. I am planning on wrapping my back porch posts in rough cedar. Will it work to brush this mixture on to the rough cedar to keep it from discoloring and drying out. If not, what would you recommend?
Thanks
Belinda Britt

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Daniel Kramer May 12, 2018 10:47 pm

Just discovered your site, a lot of great info, well done. We recently bought a house in Topanga Ca. and it gets quite hot in the summer, a few months of 90-100+ weather. There’s a Douglas Fir deck with thick polyurethane that’s cracking/ flaking.. I’ve spent the last 2 weekends sanding it all off down to the raw wood. I don’t want to make the same mistake with polyurethane. Do you think this marine varnish blend would be a good choice on a fir deck? It’s a 8′ x 15′ deck, wondered if that would be too big for this method or if the wood is too soft. The other things to note is I would like it a little darker then the natural fir color and ideally I’d like a matte finish. I noticed there’s a matte version of the Epifanes, I’m not sure if it’s essentially the same stuff and would perform as well. Thanks for taking the time to reply, I realize this is a very old article (but still seems popular)
Daniel

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- Marc Spagnuolo May 16, 2018 7:40 am
  
  That is a pretty large surface area. This stuff is expensive so I’m not sure that’s the path I’d take. You might be better off going with something more along the lines of a straight outdoor oil that you can re-apply every year or two.
  
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eric June 4, 2018 11:07 am

Hey Mark-

I used this method on my engineered Mahogany door in So Cal. It had previously had a layer of Spar Urethane that was bubbly and crappy looking so after sanding it down I applied the method you mentioned. The door gets a lot of sun and the wood is now cracking (pretty extensively). My question is – should i fill the cracks (and with what?) or should i just do a light sanding and reapply more of this blend (maybe with no oil?) Thanks so much. Your knowledge on woodworking is amazing and inspirational.

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Chris Cullers Design June 10, 2018 1:32 am

Great video. Epophanes varnish is available locally at West Marine in Glendale. I have used it on boats in Seattle and a similar mixture to what you use on patio furniture here in Phoenix. It does require maintenance but is still one of the best solutions for our climate!

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Paul Siml June 16, 2018 10:05 am

Hi Marc,

Would this approach hold up on external decorative rough sawn wood beams above windows in Tucson or is there a better technique? I currently have several new wood beams (unfinished) as well as existing wood beam that have peeling/flaking spar urethane because of the age of the finish. These older beams were treated with a dark stain (ie fruitwood) and coated with spar urethane. So I am trying to both seal and match both new and old. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks Paul

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Ray October 15, 2018 4:23 pm

Hi Marc,
Great info. We live in Chandler, AZ. West facing outdoor patio old world carved wood pillars have turned gray from the original walnut finish. Can we use your combination on these pillars without adding stain?. Thanks.

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Greg Petrick April 13, 2020 5:57 pm

Marc,

Great information! I live in Arizona with a very large solid oak front door that has been finished with Gel Stain. It gets lots of sun. Still struggling with the Top Coat question. Would love to be able to just wipe a new top coat on every six months or a year but it seems that you are advising the need for a film to protect the stains color. I guess I am stuck with either a diluted Marine Spar Varnish or someone recommended General Finishes Exterior 450 Satin Top Coat. I don’t really want much of a sheen but I guess I need that film to protect the underling stain color?

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- Marc Spagnuolo April 14, 2020 11:39 am
  
  Yeah I would say a film is probably the best bet when trying to keep the color of a gel stain. Gel stains don’t penetrate very deep so it’s important to layer something over it to keep that color in place. I’d probably try the marine varnish, applying new coats as needed.
  
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Bob Warda July 5, 2020 9:46 pm

Thank you for the video and tip. Could you also use other types of penetrating oils such as Tung instead of BLO? Also, could you tint this to create different tones or hues? Thank you.

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- Marc Spagnuolo July 6, 2020 7:27 am
  
  Yes and yes. As long as you have oil-based coloring agents.
  
  Reply
Matt July 31, 2020 8:59 am

Mark,

thank you very much for making this extremely helpful video.

Much obliged!

Matt

Reply
Becky McMillen March 9, 2021 12:51 pm

Will you please come to my home in Scottsdale and refinish my front doors?

Reply
Rebecca April 10, 2021 9:25 am

Hello Marc,
I have a home in Albuquerque. I would like to stain my front door with a sage stain. Could I sand the door, apply the sage stain and then follow with your process?
Thank you for your amazing videos.

Reply
- Marc Spagnuolo April 11, 2021 9:01 am
  
  You can. Just keep the coats very thin since you’re staining. The staining will partially seal the surface and if you leave too much finish on top of that, you could have curing problems. Also give the stain a couple of days to cure before moving on to the topcoat.
  
  Reply
Dottie Palamara March 10, 2023 1:22 am

Happy to find your site! I have a solid, 60” square redwood picnic table. It has never been refinished and has been in my Oregon yard for about 43 years. Wanting to take it with me to our new home in your area (Goodyear). I have a great handyman who will be refinishing it (
Before the move (yes, it’s pretty rough after being neglected). With your suggested finish, do you think the redwood will hold-up under a pergola there (or should I leave it in Oregon). I’ve heard NO wood will last outdoors there. Thank you in adnavce!

Reply
Tamara Dowd September 13, 2023 10:57 pm

How is the door holding up after all these years? (Video 2008). If you were to do it again would you use the same formula. I am in Arizona and I have some natural pealed poles that need some protection. Thank you

Reply
- Marc Spagnuolo September 18, 2023 11:17 am
  
  I honestly can’t say. We moved out of that house shortly after this video was made.
  
  Reply
Dan Griffin September 23, 2024 10:40 am

I will be installing 50 – 3/4″ x 5.5″ x 48″ Eastern Red Cedar window louvers around my patio hot tub with an east and south exposure. Your video convinced me that your Desert Outdoor Finish is just what I need, living here in Phoenix as well. My question is what amount of mixture would I need to coat all six sides of 50 louvers? Any guidance will be appreciated.

Reply
- Marc Spagnuolo September 25, 2024 7:52 am
  
  Hey Dan. I honestly would have no idea. Best thing you can do is look at the coverage numbers provided by the manufacturer and do the math. Of course thinning will make the material go further, but you’ll also likely need a couple of coats. But there’s really no way I can advise on that without knowing all of the math.
  
  Reply

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46 – Desert Outdoor Finish

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