Roubo: End Cap Options

Article - November 15, 2011

Before each and every Guild Build, my buddy Aaron Marshall and I spend several weeks kicking ideas back and forth as we refine our design. Of course this time around, we both have newborns so our meetings are limited to the small windows of time we have between changing poopy diapers. Now this build is being modeled specifically after the Benchcrafted Split-Top Roubo. But a Guild Build just wouldn’t be a Guild Build if we didn’t tinker with things and consider other options. I thought it would be fun to show you one particular detail we are hashing out right now: the end cap.

The front slab of the Split-Top Roubo has a nice thick end cap that facilitates the attachment of the tail vise hardware and also stabilizes the front apron.

Option #1

The original Benchcrafted version features a beautiful massive dovetail. The dovetail is glued to the end cap and the slab tenon is secured to the end cap using bolts. The back bolt is in an elongated hole so the top can expand and contract.

A well thought out design to be sure, but there was one thing that bugged us. One of my favorite things about this bench is that both top halves can be sent through a planer for flattening. Wouldn’t it be great if you could do this not only during the initial build, but again 5-10 years down the road? Of course, if you’re handy with a jointer plane and you have an afternoon to spare, you can flatten the bench the traditional way. But again, we like options. So this was the primary concern we addressed with Option #2.

Option #2

Somehow, we needed to allow the end cap to be removable. Sending that slab through the planer with the end cap attached would result in disaster! So that means the dovetails would no longer receive any glue. No problem there since dovetails don’t necessarily need glue to perform their intended function. But we had one other obstacle to overcome, and that was the main slab tenon. In Option #1, you can’t slide the end cap off because the tenon is completely surrounded by the mortise. So a simple solution was to make a little more room in front of the tenon. We also opened up the back of the mortise so it acts a little more like a breadboard end. Removing the end cap would be as simple as removing the bolts, tapping the cap toward the back to release the dovetail, and then pulling the cap off the slab. The front slab could then be sent through the planer for cleanup.

Option #3

Aaron suggested this version as a way to really simplify things for folks who might be a little intimidated by the big honkin’ dovetails. It is every bit as strong as options 1 and 2 but instead of a dovetail, the front apron is attached to the end cap with a mortise and tenon joint. Since we want the cap to be removable, a third bolt could be added to secure the front apron completely without the aid of glue.

I should clarify that we are in no way questioning the validity of the original Benchcrafted design. But like any plan, things can be modified to suit your own needs/wants. So this is just some food for thought. I’d be curious to hear what you think about the changes and whether or not you would include them in your own version of the Split-Top Roubo. And if you’re not already a member of the Wood Whisperer Guild, now is a great time to join! Learn More!

Discussion

Randy November 15, 2011 2:02 pm

I would suggest option #3. I would use dowels to attach the end cap to the top tongues and when you would need to release the end cap simply drill out the dowels. Even if you thought some glue was necessary for the dowels, you could oversize the next set of holes for a new dowel. Anyway, just an idea.

Reply
Bob Rankin November 15, 2011 2:54 pm

Option #2. Love the dovetail at the front of the end caps, this would make it work. Hopefully he joint won’t swell too bad that it can’t be knocked out.

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Tucker Tuck November 15, 2011 4:09 pm

I went with number 3 when I built mine. The only difference: I used 2 drawbores from the left side of the cap (instead of the bolt) that went right into the tenon on the front laminate piece. You don’t want to center a bolt here, as the front laminate piece can then twist over time. You’ll want to instead use 2 smaller bolts to limit that twist.

Word to the wise: do not cut the cap to size at this stage; until fully installed with all mechanical fasteners. Leave it about 1/32 to 1/16 oversized on all sides and then plane true with a handplane.

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Matt November 15, 2011 4:17 pm

We used the regular plans with fancy dovetails and I started jointing by hand. Never finished but we use the bench every day and will probably build two more. #1!

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Mike Lingenfelter November 15, 2011 4:31 pm

I’m not planning to do the split-top, but I will have an end cap. I like option 3, for what I’m planning to do. I think I have found some large 5″-6″ thick stabs, so I won’t have the laminations to work with. I like the tenon idea. I think it makes that out piece more stable, if you don’t do the dovetail. I’ll add it to my drawing and see how it works for me.

Mike

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Sean Rubino November 15, 2011 5:12 pm

When I build my bench, I will use option 2. I like the look of the dovetail joint and being able to remove the cap for resurfacing the top is a fantastic idea. I look forward to joining the guild soon.

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G. Lane November 15, 2011 5:21 pm

i like option 3 for simplicity, strength, ease of installation and the option to flatten later :)

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Steven November 15, 2011 5:41 pm

I will be using the original plan one. I have thought about that prospect for some time. My first bench built 1994 from Woodsmith plans is in need of a freshening up. I was going to take the vises off and run it though my 22/44 drum sander using very light passes. I have wanted to build the Benchcrafted split top Roubo for about 2 years and always thought I’d build it some day. Thanks for making it a Guild build. I think I would forgo the planer in favor of my drum sander.

Reply
Douglas Costello November 15, 2011 6:01 pm

Option #1

Hand flattening a bench is really not that difficult.

Reply
Matt R. November 15, 2011 7:10 pm

Option 1 for me i like the idea of the dovetails being glued together that way nothing will move out of place over time

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Duncan November 15, 2011 9:42 pm

… For those with experience…

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Tom Cross November 16, 2011 2:50 am

Option #1

The dovetails look fantastic and “lifetime” bench is lessened without them.

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Jason November 16, 2011 6:42 am

Aesthetically, nothing looks quite as nice as those massive dovetails. And, to be honest, for a bench that I’m planning on using for the next 30-40-50 years, that’s an important factor for me.

As far as flattening the tops with a jointer plane, I think people get a little overworked as to the level of effort required. It’s just not that difficult, especially considering that it only needs to be done at most twice a year, and realistically will only be done once a year at best after the first couple of years.

In my experience, laminated bench tops tend to cup in the middle, with the outside edges being the high spots. Given the convex underside and concave top, I would be wary of running the tops through a planer and expecting coplaner surfaces once the tops have been reinstalled. To my way of thinking, it would be vastly more simple, less time consuming, and ultimately more accurate to just break out the winding sticks and jointer plane and have at it.

Now I’ve never had a bench made up of laminated slabs with this narrow of a width so I could very well be out in left field with these thoughts.

Reply
Beechwood Chip November 16, 2011 7:02 am

I understand opening up the back of the slab mortise in #2, so you can slide the end cap back to release the dovetails. But in #3 you no longer have dovetails, so why is the slab mortise and tenon still open to the back?

I’m probably missing something.

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer November 17, 2011 11:53 am
  
  Yeah it doesn’t really need to be that way. But I guess the argument could be made the the open mortise might be easier to construct? Maybe not, lol.
  
  Reply
- Aaron Marshall November 22, 2011 8:07 am
  
  Chip, the real answer is that I made a copy of #2 and modified it in SketchUp to create #3. I just changed the dovetail to mortise & tenon, and left the back alone.
  
  Practically, the open mortise at the back does allow you to have a longer tenon, so one could argue that the joint should stay flatter over time.
  
  Reply
  - Chris December 8, 2011 9:03 pm
    
    Good save Aaron!
    
    Reply
Eoin November 16, 2011 7:17 am

To be honest, I’d be delighted if any bench I made lasts 10 years:)

Reply
David B November 16, 2011 9:22 am

Marc, I am glad you covered this topic. I was having the same dilemma for my workbench. My bench isn’t a roubo style but more like lon scheinlings with a 7 inch skirt and caps. The top is made from 2 1/4 thick slabs 5 inches wide. I was concerned with wood movement with the skirt and slabs. After seeing these options, option 3 will work. Its not as pretty as dovetail but i also don’t want to risk cutting it horribly and having issues with alignment between the cap and skirt.

Marc, What option are you going with?

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer November 17, 2011 11:54 am
  
  I think I am leaning toward Option #2. Primarily because it really doesn’t hurt anything and it gives me the option to remove the cap someday if I choose to. Doesn’t mean I’ll be sending my slab through the planer every year (I do have a #7), but its might to know I’ve got some extra options.
  
  Reply
Tom Buhl November 16, 2011 9:46 am

Marc and Aaron,
Thanks for presenting options. At this point I’ll go with option #1. Fewer bolts is better in my world. Nice to have option of drum sander or power planing (I guess) but believe I’d prefer to do it by hand after initial build. Wrestle once, flatten many times.

Tucker and others, I really appreciate the comments section as we plan this project. Especially helpful when those who’ve done this already share their experiences and thoughts.

rock on

Reply
Jack November 16, 2011 9:59 am

That is one of the great things about the Guild. So many options to go with so many opinions, and none of them are wrong!

Personally, gluing the dovetails doesn’t work, but possibly doing something with a wood ‘pin’ that would allow the end pieces to be removable (with some effort) and could allow for wood movement. Tucker Tuck had a good point about leaving the end caps over sized a bit through final assembly.

Reply
Marie November 16, 2011 11:38 am

I pick the option that’s the easiest to do, ;-)

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Marie November 16, 2011 11:47 am

On second thought, I’d like to expand my skills and I think option 2 would be perfect dispite the bigger than me dovetails.

Reply
Brian November 16, 2011 5:40 pm

Marc, It’s been a year since my bench was completed and it needed to be re-flattened once so far. It took a couple of hours (if that) to do it by hand with planes and winding sticks. I was dreading it but it really was no big deal. As for the dovetails, (IMHO) they really class up the bench.

Reply
Mark Reuten November 16, 2011 9:37 pm

As good an idea as disassembly is, and I would have reasoned along the same lines, I doubt that I would be bothered when the time came. Flattening by hand is much simpler and a router sled set up on rails is a nice mechanized option.
I might go for the dovetails but I’m always game for a simpler functional solution.

Reply
thewoodwhisperer November 17, 2011 11:00 am

Here is some excellent food for thought from Jameel at Benchcrafted:

“I wanted to point out a couple things that I’m sure you’re already aware of. I like the idea of being able to send the tops through a planer at a future date, but in practice I think its a bad idea. As I’m sure you know, this will only resurface the tops, not flatten them. Another problem with a split top is one may need more flattening than the other. It will be nearly impossible to get them in the same plane by simply resurfacing them separately with a planer. One would need to use traditional techniques (winding sticks, straightedge) to identify the high spots, then take those down with hand planes, with both tops on the bench. A process that should take less than an hour. I’m afraid that one errant pass through a planer, with the planer set too deep, one could easily take off too much material. Using hand planes give you much more control. If one uses well-seasoned and stable wood (which they should of course) they should not need to flatten the bench all that frequently anyway. Just my 2 cents, for what they are worth. “

Reply
- Chris December 8, 2011 9:06 pm
  
  Someone needs a bigger jointer.
  
  Reply
Jason November 17, 2011 11:05 am

Jameel’s a smart guy. :-)

Reply
Joe Leigh November 17, 2011 12:43 pm

Here’s my take…this type of bench is used primarily for work holding, the type of work holding required for hand tool and hand plane use. If you are not proficient in the use of hand planes this is a perfect project to learn how to use them. When the bench is complete you should have your skills at the level where flattening the top should be a non issue. Those newfound skills will also make your new bench a more useful tool which will then improve your hand tool skills and on and on…..So, the short answer is option 1.

Reply
jason November 17, 2011 2:27 pm

i love how people complain about the effort required to flatten a bench top by hand, then suggest you run it though a planer.

maybe they don’t realize how heavy half of that top is..

Reply
- Jason November 17, 2011 3:25 pm
  
  The back half of the top weighs about 80 pounds.
  
  Reply
Mitch Luckett November 17, 2011 2:58 pm

Marc,
I’ve helped build two of these benches in the past (hard maple), and I think it would be a sin to remove the beautiful, yet extremely strong dovetail on the front. I personally wouldn’t care too much about the desire of running the top through the planer in the future (I would be more concerned with snipe and tear out from the lamination). I flatten my benchtop about once a year (jointer plane) as needed and I would devote about an hour to that process if that long. I might could go along with a wide belt sander and in that case, who cares if the end cap comes off.
Thanks,
Mitch
Lousiville, KY

Reply
Tom Miller November 17, 2011 4:35 pm

I used the “Condor Tails” when I built my bench. I did the final flattening (<1/16") with a LN #7. Not a problem. I really like the big dove tails. But, I guess that's a personal take. Using the bandsaw/router method Jameel at Benchcrafted recommends makes the dovetails less intimidating. They just look so cool!
Tom,
Tyler, TX

Reply
Joe November 17, 2011 5:22 pm

The whole point of the Roubo bench is to have something that is heavy and rigid and able to hold boards in many different ways for *hand planing* (and other related operations). Compromises to avoid hand planing seems “wrong”, but everyone’s different.

I also don’t think a stub tenon (option 3) is as strong, you’re relying completely on the glue against the pressure from the wagon vise. With the dovetail you have a mechanical lock even without the glue.

Reply
Joe Harris November 17, 2011 5:24 pm

It just seems option 3 is the most functional, but the least pretty. But remember the main function of the entire project is a shop fixture,

Reply
jersey mike November 17, 2011 7:42 pm

If I had the room to build along, I’d go with option 1. I like the idea of a permanent bench. It just seems right to build it once and use it forever.I don’t even have the option of owning one yet, so I’m not one to be throwing out advice. I’m currently using option 4, a door on horses.

Reply
Jeff Waggoner November 17, 2011 9:05 pm

How does opening the back of the mortise help you slide the dovetail off? Wouldn’t you need to open the front a little instead?

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer November 17, 2011 9:29 pm
  
  Yup, I misspoke there. The extra space is indeed toward the front. Just made the correction. Thanks!
  
  Reply
cherringshaw November 18, 2011 8:00 am

I’m am sticking with good old option #1 – love the condor tail look. And by the time I take off the top, and setup and level enough infeed and outfeed support to safely/accurately handle a 75/80lb slab of ash – I’d be done with the #8….

Reply
zontobi November 18, 2011 8:11 am

option 1. it shouldnt take an afternoon to flatten a bench top. When I built my bench (2.7 meters by 90cm wide) it took about 45 or 50 minutes I t o flatten. I thought it would be a nightmare because it looks like so much to flatten, but its actually not a problem at all.

besides, what if you get a board thats too wide for your jointer or planer.. youll want that practice to flatten that wideboard easily.

With your number 7 ( and I think you have a jack as well, right?) youll get great results.

Reply
Christopher Stahl November 18, 2011 8:06 pm

Im sticking with the original plans. This is definitely something I’d want to flatten with my #7 and a perfect opportunity for Marc to have a nice future episode for flattening the top. :-)

Reply
Vic Hubbard November 19, 2011 7:09 am

I’m planning on going with the initial plan. I’m running 12′ timbers on my jointer right now and those are heavy enough. I can’t imagine ever wanting to run an entire half slab. I am however being able to take twist out of these with minimal waste, which has been surprising to me. I was initially going to try to mostly flatten one face with hand planes, but I DON’T HAVE A BENCH YET!! Nothing is the right height to allow me to go very long without being worn out. The other option was to make a 12′ sled for the planer, but that would definitely require an extra set of hands. This method seems to be working, so far. I have the infeed and outfeed rollers set up for the depth of cut I’m taking and it helps me bite into the correct side of the timber going into the cut and I just transfer pressure as I go through and then complete the cut.

Reply
- zontobi November 20, 2011 6:08 am
  
  Vic, have you tried saw horses yet? You could use 3 or four and whatever height you want…
  
  Reply
  - Vic Hubbard November 21, 2011 6:55 am
    
    I managed to figure out a solution. I was able to essentially create longer infeed and outfeed that allowed me to flatten the twists out and not lose much thickness. I’m on to planing now. These puppies are HEAVY!! I”m getting quite a workout.
    
    Reply
Curt Carter November 20, 2011 9:58 pm

I would go with option #1. I just finished my workbench, and flattening by hand was not very difficult, if anything it was fun. I could see trying to flatten and remove twist by using a power jointer or planner being more difficult and time consuming because it would require someone else to help manuver the top, and could make re-aligning the top parts difficult. I think option #2 would be fine, perhaps to make moving the bench lighter in the future. I do not think option #3 would provide the same strength the dovetails would, and one of the most important rules for bench building is to overbuild. All great ideas though, thanks for sharing.

Reply
Jerry S November 21, 2011 3:48 pm

For me, it would be option #1. There is no way I would want to try sending a huge slab like that through a planer. IF I were to do something like that, I take the bench top to a local wood shop and have them send it through their wide belt sander. Let them mess with the massive pieces, hand over the $25 for the 15 minutes of machine use and head back home. They would even help get it out of the car and back in. Totally worth my money.
Now, with the amount of time I can actually spend in my shop, I may only need to flatten it once every 5 years. So, I would really prefer to just take the 2 hours and do it by hand. (Assuming I learn the techniques…I am still in the early stages of learning proper hand planing prcedures.)

Reply
Barron November 26, 2011 7:24 am

It looks like I may be a heretic and even risk getting tossed from the guild, but I am giving strong consideration to Chris Schwarz’s suggestion from the interview. Using three 6-7″ lag screws to hold the end cap. Dovetails look great, but this bench is a tool, not furniture.

Reply
Curt Carter November 27, 2011 10:38 am

I believe the plans call for lag screws/bed bolts to hold the end caps on anyways. The dovetails just add the assurance that mechanically the endcap cannot come off, and keeps the edge lamination aligned properly. The dovetails alone could never hold the end caps on, and it would be foolish to glue the tenon in place because of the wood movement.

Reply
Peter November 28, 2011 8:35 am

Dovetails and Spax bolts
Here is another suggestion and the one I think I’m going to go with. I am going to make the dovetails and then I’m going to cut them off and glue them into their sockets. I’ll then use the spax bolts the same way that benchcrafted did on page 17 of their new tail vise installation instructions. The dovetails in this case are only decorative (but add a nice touch) and the spax bolts keep everything in place. I can then just unbolt the bolts and send the top through the planer. I think this is the best of both worlds

Reply
Paul December 4, 2011 4:34 pm

Guys,
I chose to use one large dvtl and made the full 12″ of each top section. As I do not use vises, If needed I can flip top sections over, allowing one side for dirty work and the other for good.

Reply
troy_tx December 4, 2011 10:08 pm

I am going to build along, however I tend to build more cabinets and large furniture pieces for clients so I decided to go with a solid top 25? x 120?. I am blessed enough to have a double drum sander that is supposed to accommodate 26? although I have never quite tested it on a piece that large. If it works I will have no need to worry about tear out on the top. So I?m going with the original look. I on the other hand will not likely move the top after it is in place a plain sounds a lot lighter.

Reply
jlawyer December 8, 2011 11:03 am

With regards to Option 3:

Konrad Sauer expresses concern about the strength of this joint when used with the wagon vise, that with repeated use, the force of the wagon vise will push/fracture the endcap off the bench.

His pins & tails were reversed and so he lost the corner joint strength.

See his fix here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FMes.....Repair.jpg

Using the benchcrafted knock-down bench bolts might also be an appropriate fix.

Reply
- Aaron Marshall December 9, 2011 9:44 am
  
  Konrad’s approach of installing a metal plate on the underside of the endcap is inspired, thanks for the link. To be fair though, Option 3 assumed you would use a few lag screws to hold on the endcap. Konrad kept his endcap clean, so his version relies just on the breadboard tenon and a few 1/4″ drawbore pins for strength. Maybe this is why it moved on him. The lag screws are strong enough, and in fact Benchcrafted has shown an endcap version with no joinery at all, just butted onto the slab with some lags.
  
  In the end, there are a bunch of ways to get the job done and everyone will have to choose which method makes them comfortable.
  
  Reply
Jake December 30, 2012 10:46 pm

Do you think you could use one of these types of joints to add 6 inches to the length of a Roubo workbench? I have 5.5 ft long oak slabs to use for my top, but really want to get to 6 feet long. Thank you!

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer December 31, 2012 8:08 am
  
  Yes, if you add an end cap to both ends.
  
  Reply
  - Jake January 2, 2013 10:43 pm
    
    What is the maximum length you would feel comfortable adding to each side with these joints?
    
    Reply
    - Jake January 2, 2013 10:55 pm
      
      I am also failing to see how the end cap will fit the dovetail and tenon in option 1 and 2. They do not appear to draw. It appears that the end cap would be blocked out by the divergent dovetail and adjacent tenon. Any explanation would be greatly appreciated!
    - thewoodwhisperer January 3, 2013 7:40 am
      
      Probably no more than 3 inches or so.
    - thewoodwhisperer January 3, 2013 7:41 am
      
      It all comes down to assembly order. The front strip is added in after the end cap is attached.
    - Jake January 3, 2013 10:57 pm
      
      I see where the confusion is now. I am building a traditional Roubo bench with one large slab of oak. Any ideas of how I might be able to pull it off with one big slab? Last question, I promise! Thanks for all of your help!
      
      Jake
    - thewoodwhisperer January 4, 2013 10:36 pm
      
      It’s the same concept really. Apply the end cap over the tenon and apply the front strip of the top as the final step in the sequence. be sure to allow for movement.

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Roubo: End Cap Options

Option #1

Option #2

Option #3

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