58 – Gadget Station (2 of 12)

Video - July 21, 2008

For the first time ever, I am using mail-ordered wood. This material came from Bell Forest Products and I was very impressed with the quality. The shipment came in two packs and contained some really nice wide bubinga boards, as well as a piece of ebony for the trim and some spalted maple for the doors. I sticker and stack the wood and talk about acclimation, and how it pertains to this particular situation. I talk a little bit about moisture meters as well and finish up by showing my strategy for cutting the cabinet parts out of the rough lumber so that the grain flows nicely.

Discussion

Tim July 21, 2008 9:12 pm

Northern California? This wouldn’t happen to be a gift for David Marks would it?

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thewoodwhisperer July 21, 2008 9:16 pm

Hey Tim. You didn’t watch part 1 did you? :) The cabinet is intended for Leo Laporte, a well-known tech enthusiast and radio/television personality. Oddly enough happens to be very close to David. Maybe we will work in a trip to David’s shop while we are in town.

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muddlermike July 22, 2008 1:54 am

almost the entire show on moisture and stickering – just when I think you’ve covered it all, you find some other detail! nice episode, Marc. very informative.

Mike

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ShawnR July 22, 2008 8:54 am

Marc,

Thanks for the video, your off to a great start. One question on the moisture meter. Does the density of the wood effect the flow of electricity / measurement

Thanks!

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thewoodwhisperer July 22, 2008 9:10 am

Hey Shawn. The pinless style moisture meters are generally affected by the wood’s density. So most will have a correction chart based on the specific gravity of the wood species. The pin-style meter, like mine, will also have different readings with different woods. But not because of density. Instead, each wood species has its own electrical characteristics that cause variations in the readings. To be honest, I don’t worry about this all that much because all the wood I use is kiln dried, and I am really only concerned about relative numbers. How close is the new piece to an older piece which serves as my “standard”. The absolute number itself, is not as much of an issue as it might be with air dried lumber or wood that is drying in a kiln. The good thing is regardless of what type of meter you have, they usually come with a chart so you can make the appropriate adjustments for species variation.

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MikeD July 22, 2008 5:04 pm

Marc,

I generally enjoy your videos, it seems that more and more of your show is being devoted to pimping products. In light of all the free tools and lumber you’re getting, how can viewers trust your recommendations?

Thanks,
Mike D.

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thewoodwhisperer July 22, 2008 5:38 pm

Hey Mike. I sometimes have trouble responding to comments like this. Partly because I think many people become fixated with spotting “product placement” and “ads” that they get tunnel vision. I spent about 11 minutes in this video talking about acclimation, air flow, moisture readings, board selection, and cutting strategies, and this is the video you decide to ask me about “pimping” products? My last “product focused” video was 10 episodes ago and was focused on the new tools being released by Festool. I made that video at the request of numerous viewers who wanted to see the tools in action. So I think if you are on the hunt, you just might find a “product” in every show. But please don’t misinterpret the presence of a product as “pimping”.

Every video, every email, every conversation I have is conducted with integrity and honesty. If trying out a mail order wood service so that I can make a recommendation on the quality of their wood is what you consider “pimping”, then I suppose I am guilty. But honestly I wanted to experience the whole thing myself so that I could safely tell people whether this particular dealer was any good.

And how can viewers trust my recommendations? Well, how can viewers/readers trust any recommendations they get from any source, including magazines, blogs, and their neighbor down the street?? At some point, you have to have faith in the person delivering the information. Have I given you a reason to distrust me in any way? Have I given you bad advice? My trust with viewers is gained by answering about 30 emails a day and having honest and frank conversations on the blog and in the chat room. On many occasions I have recommended against a sponsor’s tools. I have given negative reviews for products that were given to me for free. I feel bad about it too, but the my experiences are an open book.

Maintaining the respect of my viewers is a top priority and my future relies upon it. So I apologize for the passionate response. But keeping these videos rolling out for free doesn’t come from pats on the back and well wishes. Its comes from the support of companies who produce products. Fortunately, there are some companies that produce great products on a regular basis, and I am proud to use those products in my shop. And I assume most people would prefer that I don’t cover up labels and pretend like you don’t know who’s drill I’m using, like they do on TV.

So by all means, be skeptical. It’s the internet after all. But also remember that not everyone is out to pull the wool over your eyes. There are alot of great people putting woodworking videos out right now and as far as I am concerned, they should all be trusted until they give us a reason not to.

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Claude Stewart July 22, 2008 6:03 pm

Hey Marc
I take exception to MikeD’s comment too. I’ve always appreciated your prompt responses to my emails. And always with a well thought out reply. Besides I’m thinking that if you were shamelessly pimping products you would at least have on a big purple hat and a leopard skin vest. Although you are guilty of sucking up to Leo for about a minute in the first episode. Although I’m thinking that NIcole put you up to it. Claude

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thewoodwhisperer July 22, 2008 6:08 pm

Oh crap! How did you find out about my leopard skin vest?!??!

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VicH July 22, 2008 6:13 pm

Mike D, The reason you can trust Marc’s recommendations is because he does say when a product doesn’t work for him ( ex. Incra fence) and in the case of Festool, even though they make incredible products, he has repeated that they are not for everyone and not necessary to do good work. Even with the introduction of this online wood resource, he flat out said that he fully expects they gave him the best they’ve got because he would be featuring them if the product was good. I didn’t use quotes, because I don’t recall his “exact” words.

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David (runningwood) July 22, 2008 7:12 pm

As someone who has followed the Whisperer almost from the beginning in the fall of 2006, I take offense at MikeD’s comment. Marc has always been open and honest about products and only through his mention are we often able to learn about products or companies that we would otherwise never know about. And yes, he does tell us when a product is not up to his standards.

I in fact contacted the wood dealer he mentioned because I was impressed by the wood they sent and by Marc’s recommendation several weeks ago and I am sure glad I called. They are the some of the most friendly and helpful people I have ever dealt with.

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Kyle July 22, 2008 9:03 pm

hey marc,

I agree with your reply to mike d. I have been watching from the beginning and never thought of you as a product pimp. I just got a piece of birdseye maple from bell forest, solely on the fact that you could finally recommend an online source for wood.

I was thrilled when you came out with that video cause Ive been limited to buying wood from rockler and lowes (shudder). Like most other viewers, I bought a few things on your recommendation and id say a lot would agree that we trust it. Keep it up!

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Russell Tribby July 22, 2008 9:13 pm

I have to echo what David, Vic and Claude have said. A few weeks ago I sent Marc an email asking his opinion about a product he had featured on on of his episodes. He was honest and upfront about the tool, giving what seemed to me to be a sincere and objective analysis. He neither recommended nor disuaded me from buying the tool. Rather, he offered what he thought were it’s finest points and particular drawbacks. Did I take his advice? Well…..for about a week until I got a deal on the tool that I couldn’t pass up. I appreciate the candid nature of Marc’s format and would trust his judgement, without hesitation, in the future.

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thewoodwhisperer July 22, 2008 9:50 pm

Thanks for the support guys. It seems like this type of public defense is becoming necessary all too often. Increased popularity and sponsorship certainly has its cost.
FYI, I never block comments that are relevant and on topic (criticism or not), but I think its time I started. Any comment that deals with me or my business and really has nothing to do with the topic at hand will be blocked from the site and handled privately. After all, people don’t come to this site for drama and arguments. They come here to escape all that crap.

So thanks again for the support folks. Let’s get back to the stuff that brought us all here in the first place: woodworking!

Reply
muddlermike July 22, 2008 9:56 pm

MikeD – you obviously haven’t watched many of Marc’s shows nor followed him for any length of time. If you had you would know that Marc has done his best to aviod endorsements for endorsement sake from the beginning. His integrity is one of the primary reasons for his following. I, for one, was glad to hear of someone who used and was happy with an internet hardwood dealer – something I was considering and had apprehensions about. And I don’t recall Marc mentioning that he got the wood for free, just so he could mention the company on his podcast. It’s not as if he has a public TV show and was plugging PC and Delta all the time.

Your accusations are baseless and inappropriate.

Mike

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Rick July 23, 2008 12:40 am

Entertaining, informative, instructional from someone whos enjoying what he’s doing. The Earlex was music to my ears also.
Mike d you need to pull out that George Michael cd and get FAITH! Marc keep up the good work.

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Jeremiah July 23, 2008 1:17 pm

I think I’ve watched every Wood Whisperer episode and listened to every Wood Talk Online episode at least 5 times each. That’s not an exaggeration. And while there are a few points I disagree with either in preference, technique or because I’m just a blockhead and can’t believe another way works as well as mine, I can’t think of single bit of information I’ve been presented with from the shows that has been shady or misleading. In fact they’ve been refreshing in that we still get to see things that didn’t go quite right (like the make your own vacuum bag episode). I’d pay to watch the shows (though I prefer free).

If only our politicians could be as honest and straightforward as Marc is with his thoughts and recommendations, then maybe we’d hear Louis Armstrong’s old tune “What a Wonderful World” and not laugh.

Marc for president! :)

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MikeD July 23, 2008 3:52 pm

Marc et al.,

Thanks for all the responses. I’ve reread my original post, and I have to apologize because it certainly comes off more agressive than I intended. I’ve watched most of Marc’s videos, and I’ve learned a lot from them. My post was in response to the the latest video that included an advertisement for an internet wood supplier. Having had very bad experiences from online sources myself, I must admit that I was skeptical of Marc’s endorsement. It seems that he calls up the company, indentifies himself, and they send him great pieces of lumber for free in exchance for publicity. I thought that it was unlikely that an anonymous orderer would be so fortunate, and that if Marc wanted to give a fair recommendation, he would have acted anonymously (like most reviewers do). That said, I realize that my post comes off as hostile, and I apologize for that. And I respect Marc for posting my message and responding to it rather than blocking it.

Thanks.

Mike D.

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thewoodwhisperer July 23, 2008 4:21 pm

Thanks for explaining Mike. I can understand your skepticism. But remember, I am not a reviewer. I just do my show and report what I find. I have no desire to play the games reviewers must play in order to establish and keep the trust of their viewers, which is usually a tenuous trust at best. My trust comes from the fact that people know me in a way they could never know a magazine reviewer. And that affords me a little more leeway. So I simply relay my impressions and my experiences, and give you as much information as possible so you can make your own decisions.
Previously, when people asked me about mail order wood, I would recommend a local place that had decent wood but was way overpriced. Well then I got a call from the guys at Bell Forest Products. Their prices were good, the shipping was reasonable, and they sent me a small sample. The sample looked fantastic. The quality of wood was nice and the package arrived in good condition. So I decided to use these guys for my next project. I figured this would be a great opportunity to show everyone what it was like to order the wood via mail. As far as I know, no one has ever addressed this topic in detail before so I assumed, regardless of whether I payed for the material or not, seeing this process would be useful and beneficial to the folks who are interested.

But make no mistake about it, if they start sending people crappy wood, I will be the first to know about it, and I will no longer recommend them. But after dealing with them over the course of a few weeks and scouring their site, I could see that these guys really had a handle on how to supply wood to the average hobby woodworker, which is something I haven’t seen anyone else do very well. I really like their approach.

So enough about that. We are giving them more advertising with every sentence, lol.

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wilbur July 24, 2008 5:41 pm

Hi Marc,

I thought I might ask an actual question. It looks like there are some green circles in the middle of your boards. Are they there for a reason?

Reply
thewoodwhisperer July 24, 2008 5:50 pm

Hey Wilbur. No particular reason. Those marks are from the lumber dealer. I often find lumber comes with some random marks on it with no clear rhyme or reason. There are no flaws in or around that area so I honestly have no idea why they are there. But its not the first time I have seen such a thing.

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The OTHER MikeD July 25, 2008 8:02 am

Boy, I glanced at the comments on this page and suddenly thought I’d said something offensive, but no…that wasn’t me. Someone else liberated my display name (I’m the MikeD who commented on the post about who’s making the gadget station…search for “mind the warts” and that’s me). Good, now I feel justified. On to my comment…

I personally got hooked on your site the day you were pimping the Domino. Having never seen (or even heard of) one, it was extremely helpful for you to demo the system and, being a beginning woodworker, I look forward to learning about gadgets and brandnames that are new to me.

More specific to this post, I wouldn’t mind some recommendations from Marc and others on additional sources for mail-order wood. I see you have Bell listed on your Links page…any others?

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Brian July 28, 2008 5:46 am

Hi Marc,

I love your podcast. I don’t use nearly as many powertools as you do as my shop is only about 100 sq. feet. And I have to share that space with my wife’s storage.

Anyway, I loved the fact that you didn’t run that piece of figured maple through the planer, but through your sander. For those of us without one of those gadgets, how do you recomend milling a highly figured and fragile piece of wood?

Thanks

Reply
thewoodwhisperer July 28, 2008 8:10 am

Hey Brian. If you don’t have access to the typical power tools that we use for milling (jointer/planer/drum sander), there are a number of hand tools that can help you get the job done. And it really depends on how much work the board needs. If its already relatively flat, you might be able to get away with a few passes from a smoothing plane. But if the piece needs a lot of work you might want to step back to a plane that will allow you to hog out more material per pass. Also, for light smoothing work, you could always try a card scraper or a cabinet scraper.

On the power tool side, a belt sand could certainly get the job done. Although its a beast to control sometimes.

Good luck.

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Germain July 28, 2008 6:08 pm

Word up, Huggy Bear! Er, I mean, hey, Marc.

Looks like you’ve uncorked yet another effective and highly informative video. When you were noting the grain patterns on your first board, were they that obvious? Would it have helped to “wet” the board to see the grain patterns? Or, is that necessary only on some pieces with less obvious grain.

Keep on truckin’.

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thewoodwhisperer July 28, 2008 6:34 pm

Huggy Bear eh? lol.

One some boards, wetting the grain might help. But on these bubinga boards the grain was definitely obvious, although it may not have seemed that obvious in the video. Definitely obvious in person with the naked eye.

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John Leko July 29, 2008 11:21 am

Marc,

I’d be interested in hearing/seeing more about your method of checking moisture content. I use a pinless meter, and am constantly adjusting for different wood species. It puzzles me how you can get a “relative” moisture reading if the wood species are different. Even Delmhorst meters have species adjustments.

Thanks.

J.

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thewoodwhisperer July 29, 2008 11:31 am

Hey John. Let me explain a little more. First, when I took the original reading, I had it in my head that the rough lumber was jatoba. Bubinga and jatoba are very difficult to tell apart in the rough state. And for some reason I had jatoba on the brain. So the reference piece was jatoba and it should have been bubinga. Now aside from that, none of my wood here in the shop registers on the meter regardless of the species, just because its so dry. I knew that going into the video but I wanted to show how if you take a board of the same species, you can get a relative idea of where your new wood is and how far it has to go to catch up to the wood that’s been in your shop for a while. So I apologize for the lack of clarity there. Hopefully that makes sense now.

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Matt February 21, 2009 10:47 am

I know I’m always about a year behind, but on to my comment:
Water itself is not conductor at all, it is the particles in the water that are the conductors.

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer February 21, 2009 11:03 am
  
  lol, since I doubt we’ll ever run across absolute pure H20 in nature, I think its a pretty safe generalization to say that water conducts electricity, at least for the purposes of this conversation.
  
  Reply
noob-be January 10, 2010 4:18 pm

Marc,

Where I am located, anything other than oak 4/4 is difficult to come by, so I am extremely interested in mail order lumber. At the same time, I travel frequently along the western side of the rockies. Ultimately my question is would it be cost effective to order via mail after shipping costs, or should I just plan a stop to a hardwood dealer, bypassing the postage?

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer January 10, 2010 4:20 pm
  
  Hey Noob. Hard to say since prices vary so much from dealer to dealer. I can say that Bell Forest Products, even with shipping, are pretty reasonably-priced. Your best bet is to price it out and see how much better you can do locally. Good luck!
  
  Reply
lumber junkie June 28, 2016 7:43 am

in episode 58, what is the model number of the delmhorst meter that you use? and are you satisfied with the quality? i recently started to mill my own wood from stumps and limbs that i find, so i’ve been shopping for one. i could use a little advice on the subject, and i trust your opinion. thanks…

Reply

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58 – Gadget Station (2 of 12)

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