98 – Low Entertainment Center (2 of 5)

Video - September 4, 2009

If there is one major negative aspect to working with plywood and other sheetgoods, its the fact that we have to deal with the ugly exposed edges. But with a little know-how and some strips of wood, you can dress up the edges so that only a trained eye can tell that the board is not completely made of solid wood.

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Discussion

Kerry Drake September 4, 2009 9:37 am

It’s nice to see Mark taking time to talk about and think about people who might not have Powermatic tablesaw and a Kapex mitre saw.

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- Rob September 4, 2009 5:08 pm
  
  I’m 99% happy with this one. The overall concept of a can-do project that looks fabulous and requires only basic tools is a real treat…
  
  *BUT*
  
  …Having done baseboards and casings for three rooms in our first house with one of those very same yellow plastic boxes, that’s 1% where I would put my foot down. I wouldn’t wish one of those things on my worst enemy, especially not for the tips of such a lovely entertainment center.
  
  If a plunge router and a circular saw are fair game in our can-do shop concept, then an inexpensive chop saw should definitely be on the list and the yellow box goes in the trash where it belongs.
  
  Keep up the good work. I’m looking forward to the next show and am particularly keen to see how you finish this piece. Any chance we’ll see sample planks of different things that one can do to walnut as part of that process?
  
  Reply
  - thewoodwhisperer September 4, 2009 5:39 pm
    
    Only 99%?!?! Man I am slacking off! lol
    
    I couldn’t agree more about the miter box. But….its is an option. I didn’t say it was a good option. But it is an option. :)
    
    And the finish on this piece was simple as well. Just a wiping varnish. I do show the process but I didn’t get too deep into test boards or anything like that.
    
    Certainly something we can think about doing in the future though.
    
    Reply
    - Hawaii5hoe September 5, 2009 10:36 am
      
      I wonder if a Japanese pull say would work better with the yellow plastic miter box. I’ve used the plastic miter boxes and the sucky saws that come with them in the past too and the biggest problem I had was the junky saw pushing the workpiece away from the site of the miter box. Maybe using a Japanese pull saw might alleviate the problem by cutting on the pull stroke, pulling the workpiece up against the miter box plus Japanese pull saws are are great inexpensive utility saw to have for a project like this?
Brodie September 4, 2009 10:19 am

Great video as always.

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Anthony September 4, 2009 10:27 am

As always, great job at explaining. I appreciate you exlaining all the little details and hints.
Are you going to cover how to make the thicker edging around the top and bottom slanted as in the photo of “my version” on the plan download page?
Thanks

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- thewoodwhisperer September 4, 2009 10:47 am
  
  Absolutely!
  
  Reply
Phil September 4, 2009 10:35 am

Hey Mark,

I tried to go back and watch Part 1 of this series, but it wouldn’t play. I even got an error when I tried to download it. Is it just me, or is there a problem with the file? Thanks.

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- thewoodwhisperer September 4, 2009 10:47 am
  
  My guess is its a temporary problem with our video host. I’ll keep my eye on it today to see if it clears itself up. Thanks!
  
  Reply
  - Phil September 4, 2009 11:54 am
    
    Seems to be working fine now.
    
    Reply
runningwood September 4, 2009 11:02 am

Great video as always. 2 comments:

I saw magic on this video, at minute 8:15 the glue-up went from 4 clamps to 5 miraculously! Wow

Also, your comment about glue scraping got me thinking, I have known about the waiting 15-20 minutes before scraping to wait for the skinning to occur. Can you comment on whether you think the timing would be different for the different Tite-bond products with longer or shorter open times ?

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 4, 2009 11:10 am
  
  Hey RW. You didn’t know I had magical powers did you? :)
  
  In general, nearly all titebond/pva glues will be ok to scrape after 15-20 minutes. There may be exceptions in extreme conditions. But you probably shouldn’t be doing a glue up in extreme conditions anyway. :)
  
  The good thing is you’ll know if its too soon. If the glue doesn’t have a skin on it yet, it will just spread when you go to scrape it off. So if you see that, stop, and way another 5 minutes. But 15-20 usually covers all bases.
  
  Reply
Waid September 4, 2009 11:20 am

Wait a minute. You called yourself out like you made a mistake when routing a dado. You said your were going the wrong direction. If you are only making one pass AND its a dado cut and not a rabbet then how have you determined that you were going the wrong direction? There is no Clockwise or Counter clockwise if there is no exposed side of the groove your cutting. I say you were going the correct direction.

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 4, 2009 11:44 am
  
  Hey Waid. I find that there actually is some directionality even when plowing through material on all sides of the bit. If I go in one direction, the router wants to walk a bit (like a climb cut). But if I go the other direction the router is more stable and feels like a regular cut. We got into this a while back using a very bad analogy (my fault), but you can check out the thread:
  http://www.thewoodwhisperer.co.....-the-week/
  
  I cut in both directions all the time simply because I forget. That feeling of climb cutting is not so strong that it makes me uncomfortable doing that operation. I just need to apply a bit more force to keep the guide against the workpiece.
  
  Reply
  - Rob September 4, 2009 6:55 pm
    
    In fact, the router wants to wander no matter whether one runs the groove counterclockwise around the edge (good) or clockwise (bad). The difference is that in the former, the router wants to walk in a direction that pulls the fence snug against the piece. In the latter, the router is trying to push the fence and itself off the piece.
    
    You’re right, after pondering spinning wheels moving themselves while submerged underwater my brain started to hurt as well.
    
    Reply
    - thewoodwhisperer September 4, 2009 7:07 pm
      
      Me and my dumb analogies! lol
JP Knapp September 4, 2009 11:32 am

Thanks for making plans available. Norm is still making money from his router table 10 years later. How about a competing version?

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WoodyWoodWrecker September 4, 2009 11:49 am

Don’t take this the wrong way because I could care less whether you use only a sharpened nail or a “Bicentennial Man” sytle android to create your projects and I enjoy your videos. But I thought you had stated in your first video of this series that you were only going to use certain small power tools. I can’t check at the moment since the first video isn’t working but I don’t remember a tablesaw being included in the list of tools.

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 4, 2009 12:13 pm
  
  Well my goal with this series is to present a project that COULD be built with only those basic tools. When it comes to cutting the thin strips, I stated that I didn’t feel comfortable cutting them with the circular saw, although it could be done. I then recommended that if the user can’t find a safe way to cut those pieces, that they either go purchase “face frame stock” from a dealer or have the material milled at the lumber supplier. I used my tablesaw to show how I personally handled the situation.
  
  Same thing with the miter cuts. I used my miter saw, but I also presented the alternative.
  
  I want to not only show how to get things done with less expensive tooling, but to also show why it might be nice to upgrade at some point in the future. Make sense?
  
  Reply
  - WoodyWoodWrecker September 4, 2009 12:43 pm
    
    Makes sense. But, if you have a “Bicentennial Manâ
    
    Reply
Joshua September 4, 2009 12:49 pm

Great site. I love the idea of only using portable power tools for a project. It makes it closer to home for those of us without a full woodshop. Thanks for the great site and tons of useful knowledge.

Reply
- Joshua September 4, 2009 12:53 pm
  
  I noticed the fifth clamp come in there also, i just figured you found the infamous spell “summon: clamp” on your last wow outing.
  
  Reply
Justin Miller September 4, 2009 1:03 pm

Great Show. Just a thought…An easier way to remove the edge banding overhang would be to use a flush trim bit in the router and then finish up with some sandpaper

Reply
lc September 4, 2009 6:02 pm

Lovely project!

I just disagree in one thing: basic tools

what is ‘basic tools’?

I consider my inexpensive black and decker 10″ desktop saw as one! around us100 and it work better than the portable one (DW352) I have to make my rip cuts

There is some inexpensive brands of everything!
compound miter saw, routers, TS, planner, dust collector and so on

And don’t forget the reconditioned tools!
porter cable brad nailer are one nice example for around us50 :D

Just seek for closeouts and make one nice workshop
I know I never find some japan chinsels into any bargain bin, but I can do some things with my irwin or WoodRiver

My point is: I don’t need the TOP quality tools because I woodwork for hobby and to my house, but some tools are really useful and I love to have em all.

Back to the project…
Nice to see you think about the cables!
Cables are one big problem, I know! (I have lot’s of)
Many furniture makers don’t care about

I guess it gonna have one big TV on top of it.
If so, how the TV cables goes to the power filter and electronics inside the cabinet? You plan to do some holes in the top? Maybe one big square hole close to the back?

Waiting for the next part!
Tanks for sharing another fine project

Reply
- mike from Pittsburgh September 7, 2009 2:41 pm
  
  Regarding the “inexpensive black and decker desktop saw”, one issue I have is that cheap can sometimes equal unsafe, especially for beginners. My first table saw was a B&D tabletop saw, and I was frightened of the thing. It just didn’t have the horsepower or the fine-tuning to handle anything more than a thin piece of pine, no matter what I did to true it up. And the fact that I was much more of a novice back then, I didn’t exactly true it up very well. If you can’t afford a good quality table saw (my current one is a Delta Contractor saw that sells for about $400) I’d say stick with the hand tools and save your fingers.
  
  Reply
Paul September 4, 2009 6:15 pm

Great video. I enjoy all your videos. I really like that you are doing a basic project built with generally basic tools.

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saxman September 4, 2009 8:25 pm

Marc,

Thanks for being the hardest working man in show biz.

Reply
Zach September 5, 2009 12:09 am

Good work on this series Marc.

I noticed your 100th episode is just around the corner. Any special plans to celebrate that?

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 6, 2009 8:57 am
  
  Nothing planned really. To tell you the truth we are probably on episode 110-ish. Early on, I would name multipart episodes as Episode 7 part 1, and Episode 7 part 2. Eventually I realized it was easier to just call them separate episodes.
  
  Reply
tom September 5, 2009 2:40 pm

You make using the block plan easy. Every time I try this method with banding wider than 1/4″ I knick the ply. I am doing an entertainment center right now with twin towers that have 3 exposed shelves each. I going to use a flush trim bit with a jig to hold the router steady on the edge. Any words to the wise?

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 6, 2009 9:00 am
  
  Yes, use a block plane! lol. Actually, unless I have a lot of trimming to do, I really prefer the control of a block plane. If you do decide to use a router, your big challenge is going to be balancing the router on a 3/4″ edge. So you’ll need to add some extra support or a jig or something to make it safe and to avoid gouging the work. I have gouged enough pieces to make me realize that one small lots, the block plane is the better choice for me.
  
  Reply
  - Dylan September 6, 2009 6:49 pm
    
    I’ve run into similar issues with block planes knicking my plywood when using them to trim. The iron is sharp (at least as best I’ve been able to make it, still working on that skill), but as I get it close to flush I always seem to kiss the surface I”m trying to flush the edging to.
    
    Any suggestions on avoiding this other than practice?
    
    Reply
    - thewoodwhisperer September 7, 2009 9:14 am
      
      Actually the trick is to not go all the way with the block plane. Did you notice in the video that I followed up with a card scraper? I usually stop planing where there is about 1/64″ or so. The scraper and a little sanding will take care of the rest.
kentuckybill September 6, 2009 8:45 am

I’m with Tom on the use of the block plane. I can always make that use of the block plane look silly. That is why I also use a flush trim bit there. Anyhoo another very useful video. Thanks Marc..

Reply
Enrique September 6, 2009 10:22 am

Just a question, the vertical panels will just be glued into the dados?

Thanks, can’t wait to see how its put together,

great job!! , regards from Chile.

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 7, 2009 9:15 am
  
  Yessir! Just glue. You could increase the strength by adding screws or maybe a few toenailed brads. But I didn’t really think it was all that necessary.
  
  Reply
Lone_Wolf September 7, 2009 8:43 am

Marc,
Another great video. Just a question about flush trimming the edge. If you are going to touch up the banding with sandpaper, what is the lowest grit you would start with? Is 120 too harsh for the ply?

Thanks!

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 7, 2009 9:16 am
  
  I would most likely start with 150-180. 150 if there is still some material to remove, and 180 if its nearly flush.
  
  120 does strike me as a little bit harsh for the ply, but if you are careful you can probably get away with it.
  
  Reply
Russ September 7, 2009 1:04 pm

Marc,
When cutting the plywood up for the individual pieces or for any cuts using the circular saw, for that matter), do you factor in the width of the blase into your calculations?? Seems to me that the width of the blade would be enough so that things may not fit together exactly. I’m pretty much a novice at this stuff, so I’m just wondering if that is something you takee into consideration when laying out your plans.
Thanks!!!

Reply
Russ September 7, 2009 1:05 pm

Also, another great project, BTW!!!

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Rick September 7, 2009 6:13 pm

Nice video. Love the site. I am fairly new to wood working and it was nice to see you pull out some hand tools (flush cut saw). I know there are times when I turn to a power tool and a hand tool would probably work better. I would find it really beneficial to see a series on different types of hand saws and their uses.

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nateswoodworks September 7, 2009 7:07 pm

This is not my cup of tee NOW, but I sure wish I had some of this knowledge when I started years back. It is the basics that give you the courage to move on, and this will do just that for newer woodworkers, so hats off to Marc. Sometimes the New Yankee and such can scare people away with the $ signs- showing only the costly ways of doing things and not the basic starter stuff.
Nate
Nate

Reply
nateswoodworks September 7, 2009 8:58 pm

Russ depending on where your “keep” part of the stock is in reference to the straight edge you do have to include the blade, so depending on what side of the line you cut on. Just a couple of suggestions that make it easier for me. One thing I do is have blocks measured for cutting on each side of the line. I also have the same Porter Cable saw Marc uses in the video so like his my one set of blocks is 5″ and the other set of blocks is the 5″ plus the blade width, that way you make the mark where you want the cut-place your block on the mark on each side of the work piece and clamp them down so nothing moves and but the straight edge up to the bocks and clamp it in place-now remove the blocks and you are ready to cut. The reason I like 2 sets of blocks is depending on which side of the line you cut on for stability of the saw you have the blocks right there.
The other you may have seen or done already and is basically the same concept as the track-saw’s on the market that has been used for decades-but I thought I would say it anyway, here is a video that shows the basics of what I am talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....eature=fvw
I do a few things different, I like to use stock that is 1/2″ so it is more rigid and gives you a higher fence so the saw doesn’t ride up over the fence-that I make about 3″ wide, and I like to have a wider piece of plywood as the base so that I can do the same thing on the other side of the fence for my router with a 1/4″ because it makes it an even more versatile jig. I hope helps some and good luck.
Nate

Reply
Martin September 8, 2009 11:36 am

Hi!

Greating from the other side of the pond!

I just recently found your website, but what a site it is. You have my deepest respect for the work you put into doing your podcasts interesting, instructive and last but not least, fun to watch. The only downside would be that it is distracting me from the renovation of our house. :-)

Anyway, keep up the g(w)ood work.

Best Regards

Martin, Dalecarlia, Sweden

Reply
colegirlsdad September 10, 2009 12:52 am

Quick question, not pertaining to this episode, but just curious. You use the forrest woodworkerII on your tablesaw, do you switch it out for a plywood specific blade or do you use the woodworkerII for plywood also? Thanks

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 10, 2009 8:35 am
  
  Nope. I keep the same blade in there. I find the Forrest WWII does a great job on plywood.
  
  Reply
david September 10, 2009 11:40 am

whats the difference between a varnish and a stain

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- thewoodwhisperer September 10, 2009 12:17 pm
  
  Hi David. Just think of stain as a coloring agent. It does nothing but bring color to the wood. A varnish is a resin that dries as a protective film. That’s incredibly generalized but it should give you an idea of the primary differences between the two products.
  
  Reply
  - david September 11, 2009 1:19 am
    
    k thx ive used a redwood stain on two of my projects and like how it looks but im thinking a more natural look would b nicer so i think ima try the varnish for sure thx again by the way have u shopped at woodworkers souce cuz i also stay in arizona and im wondering if they got some good deals in there
    
    Reply
Jon S September 11, 2009 10:20 am

Another way of getting it off the floor is to use the 2-3″ hard foam insulation so the entire piece is supported underneath. You could also secure your pieces that will be used for the trim to another board and still cut them with the circular saw (you might have to have another board next to it to rest the saw on)

Reply
Chris September 11, 2009 5:10 pm

Marc,
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate a professional woodworker showing how to get professional results with a few basic tools. I started woodworking about a year ago and despite the opinions of some woodworking journalists and bloggers who seem to think you can only do decent work with a cabinet saw, I managed to make two nice coffee tables (well really one nice and one not so nice)and a bed stand using only a circular saw, a router, a drill and an RO sander. I especially appreciated your detailed explanation of squaring your dado. This led me to wonder if when making mortise and tenon joints you choose to square the mortise or round off the tenon. In your, or anyone else’s opinion is there an advantage of one method over the other? I would appreciate any feedback. Thank you once again. Video’s like this are EXTREMELY encouraging for anyone who is new to woodworking and I hope you will do a few more.

P.S. I just bought my first table saw this past labor day weekend and have also appreciated the video’s in the archive on basic ts safety.

Reply
david September 12, 2009 2:08 pm

what would be better for zebra wood a varnish or a stain cuz i made a picture frame for my mom her bday tommrow so im rushing

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 12, 2009 2:35 pm
  
  Its not really an either/or question. If you want to stain the wood, I recommend doing both. You need the stain to color it and the varnish to protect it. But when it comes to zebrawood, I highly recommend NOT staining it. The wood is far too beautiful to have stain on it. So a few coats of varnish should give you the protection you need. And happy birthday to your mom! :)
  
  Reply
Bryan September 13, 2009 6:49 pm

Mark, I was wondering if you could buy the actual long ebony sticks you used in your green and green ebony plug episode premade from your amazon store,

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 13, 2009 6:53 pm
  
  Hey Bryan. I don’t think Amazon carries any ebony blanks. At least I’ve never seen any there.
  
  Reply
Bill Velivis September 22, 2009 7:37 pm

Mark, excellent job on the podcast and the project, as usual. I’ve got one of those duhhhh questions. You pushed your router backwards sometimes and forwards at other times. Howscome???

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer September 22, 2009 9:50 pm
  
  Hey Bill. This was discussed above. Scroll up to Waid’s comment. Its about 6 comments down from the top.
  
  Reply
Jaze January 12, 2011 5:50 pm

I’m sure you are getting tired of my comments on these old episodes by now, but I have another question.

You did the dados (dadoes?) for the vertical pieces all in one shot? I thought the “conventional wisdom” was to take no more than 1/8″ off at a time? Is it a function of how powerful your router is?

I think my poor little router would have walked off the job if I had asked it to do that whole thing in one pass.

Reply
- thewoodwhisperer January 12, 2011 6:34 pm
  
  I definitely don’t mind the questions. That’s why the comments are always left open. The depth really depends on your bits and the material even more so than the router. I usually don’t route anything more than 1/4″ at a time. You can certainly go in 1/8″ increments but for some applications and materials, you just don’t need to be that cautious. But knowing your tools and knowing how they behave is what helps you make smart decisions in the shop. So if you don’t think your router would respond well to it, then you’re probably right. Better safe than sorry.
  
  Reply
Rick June 21, 2013 8:46 am

Mark:
Thanks for the great woodworking information. Been watching you for years.

I was wondering about a few things with this design. Is there a preferred plywood to use for the doors so they don’t bow later and become hard to slide? I got MDF core thinking it would be more stable. Also, the sides of the doors and the groove the door slides in will be exposed plywood edges. Is there a good way to edge-band 1/4″ plywood edges and 1/4″ grooves? Thinking of inserting aluminum groove in enlarge groove for door to slide in.

I just cut the dados on the top of the bottom piece last night. So far so good. I am planning to use a shop-made bed moulding (1.5 inch square) around top and bottom edges to match my living room decor. I will try to make an extra sightly curved trim piece that can be flipped and fit against the glued trim to serve as a caul for gluing up the trim. The trim profile is inverse of itself when rotated 180 degrees so it should rotate and fit together to form a square block shape for even presser across the profile.

Thanks again.

Reply

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98 – Low Entertainment Center (2 of 5)

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