Staining Maple – Question of the Week
This week’s question comes from Darin. He writes:
I am trying to finish maple to a brown appearance. I am using a dewaxed shelac as a sanding sealer and this imparts a slightly amber tone to the wood and when I apply the col. maple gel stain I get an orange tone wood instead of the brown I would like. Is there a method that you use to obtain a brown tone finish instead of the orange one I am getting.
And here was my reply:
“Hey Darin. What cut of shellac are you using? You just might be sealing the surface a bit too much, so you aren’t getting the color change you should be. Also, be sure to use a blonde shellac since that emparts little to no color at all. Do a few tests on scrap to find what works for you. I would probably recommend a 1/2lb cut to a 1 lb cut. Now if that stain still isnt dark enough, then you might want to move to a darker gel stain. The gel stain will sit on the surface more and will allow you to more effectively change the color without depending on stain absorption. Rockler has a great selection of gel stains that I use frequently. Also, if you have a spray setup, you could always use a dye mixture to get a nice even brown color. Let me know if you need more info on that method. ”
For those of you who don’t know, maple is a tricky wood to stain. It tend to absorb stain unevenly which leads to a blotchy look. By pre-sealing the wood with shellac, you can even out the color absorption. This is exactly what Darin was trying to do.
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Does anyone have experience using a dye stain rather than a pigment stain on maple?
NF emailed me this advice:
I agree with the sage advice that you gave Darin. Sounds like maybe he used too heavy a cut of shellac in his sanding sealer. I use a much-thinned cut, about 1/2 lb or less, and use scraps to determine if the particular boards need an additional coat of sealer (usually
they do not). I try to use the least amount of shellac that will give me the “anti-splotch” result when I apply stain. Depending on what stain I am using, I may need to use a second or even a third application of stain to get the final look. That is, it may take a “primer” coat of stain to serve as a base for the final”color” coat. Also, the stain needs to be thoroughly mixed before application, in order to get the colorants uniformly distributed in the stain. Sometimes, I ‘ve been in a hurry and did not mix the stain and later found that some of the colorant had settled to the bottom of the container, giving me a much different result than I expected. The stain has to be uniformly mixed.
If one has more scraps and time to experiment, it may be that some dye could be added to the thinned shellac that would enrich the final look when the stain is applied. In Darin’s case, from the “orange” tone he describes, maybe a slight amount of blue-green, green, or yellow-green tint in the shellac sanding sealer would produce the brown color he wants in the finished (pun intended) product. His test boards would determine which combination is best for his case. As a final note, commercial stains are often shown with photos of how the stain looks on pine and other woods. Each wood and each tree has its own behavior, so Darin might need to use a blend of two stains to achieve the final “custom” color he wants. Don’t be afraid to experiment. Have fun with woodworking.
Did something similar with maple, but used a diluted brown transtint dye in water prior to the shellac. Came out brown instead of orange.
I was able to use a medium brown dye to slightly color the blond toned maple and then applied a 1lb cut of shellac and then my gel stain and the results were what I wanted. I wiped on the dye and I can see why you recommended spraying this it can be a little tricky.
Darin
to whom it may concern…
I just installed maple floors in my house and I im having a big concern as to how to go about staining the floors. Im well aware of the density of wood and blochiness it could create. Im trying differnet methods conditioners as well as stains and yet, I stiil cant figure out why it comes out the way it does. “Blochiness of coarse” Would you kindly write back to me and give advice on how to go about staining my floors.
Just reading aout Darins letter and the fact that he used a gel stain might be the route to take. kindly let me know what perticular conditioner to use as well as the type of stain product to go with. Im experimenting with Duraseal products.
Hi Vince. What I would recommend is using shellac as your sealer, instead of a commercial “conditioner”. You can get dewaxed shellac by the gallon under the name Bullseye Sealcoat. As I recommended above, you are gong to want to dilute to about 1/2-1lb cut. I usually do this in a very approximate way by diluting the Sealcoat 50% with denatured alcohol. Once the floor is coated, lightly sand with 180-220 grit paper. Then I recommend using a gel stain. Pick a brand you like. I prefer General Finishes. The important thing is that its a gel formula. Flood it on the surface and wipe off the excess for a nice even color. Then, apply your topcoat of choice.
I am honestly no that familiar with Duraseal products so I cant exactly advise you there. Good luck.
OK,
I am staining birch plywood and Poplar hardwood in the same cabinet. The color will be expresso (dark brown). What I really want to do is apply a stain, dye or solution that I can put in my HVLP and spray the entire cabinet without wiping and giving me an even color. Am I dreaming? How do I do this?
PLEASE HELP!!
Hi Ray. You aren’t dreaming. You can do this, but I highly recommend going with an alcohol or lacquer-based stain. Something that dries quickly, doesn’t absorb too deep, and potentially obscures the grain a bit. Normally that last part is something we want to avoid, but in your case, its a necessary step. We don’t want people to notice that there are two different woods in use. One thing I used to do quite a bit was make my own ‘toner”, using diluted lacquer and either pigment or dye, and sometimes both. Pigments, like UTC pigments (from the paint store) are great and will change the color in a hurry. But they will obscure the grain more than a dye. So many times I will start off with a dye and see where it takes me.
Here’s a mix I would frequently use. 90% lacquer thinner, 10% lacquer, plus your color. Add however much it takes to get the color you want. I find that little bit of lacquer helps lock down the color. And keep in mind you can add many coats to arrive at the color you desire. And if thats not strong enough, start using a little pigment in the mix.
This kind of work can be a little tricky, so feel free to email me if you have other questions.
Oh and keep in mind you might just be able to use a water-based dye to the same end.
From what I have been reading on this website, I think the solution to staining my birch/ poplar cabinet in a dark walnut color is to spray a fast drying dye on it. Can you recomend a mix and where to get the dye? I have a HVLP gun to spray it. I just need a mix recipe to do this right. I have worked all summer and ut to now on my entertainment center and I do not want to screw it up at the end. I know I want to spray the color on it and then spray the urethane as my topcoat.
Please Help!
Hi Ray. There is no sure-fire solution because there are many that will work. I recommended a mix above: 90% lacquer thinner, 10% lacquer, plus you color additive. You can do many variations of this mix to get the result your looking for. You also might want to check out the gel stain/pre-seal method I used in this video:
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/73.....chy-woods/
Either way, I would recommend sealing the surface first with shellac, then adding your coats of toner. Hope that helps.
I have a maple front door that I have sanded down to the bare wood. My customer wants it stained with a dark color stain like Jacobean. I have read many blogs about using dyes, shellacs and gel stains. I have never stained maple before and am a bit confused on exactly what steps to follow. Can anyone tell me how to go about in staining this door.
Thank you, Bill
Hey Bill. I recommend following the concepts outlined in this video: http://thewoodwhisperer.com/73.....chy-woods/
And use a gel stain to get the deepest, richest color.
You may even want to add some dye to your initial coat of shellac to give you some base color before applying your gel stain.
Can someone please help me????
I am staining my oak stairs to match my “gunstock” coloured flooring. The first two coats were great. When I stained the third coat it is starting to appear quite “red”. I am using the Polyshades stains with the varathane built in. I am tempted to use the steel wool and then a thin coat of a dark brown stain to get it closer to the gunstock colour but would really like a second opinion?????? Thanks
Hi Sandy. The problem with Polyshades is that you are adding color and polyurethane at the same time. So if you don’t like the color, it can be tricky to change it or fix it. If the color is pushing red, you might be on the right track trying to overlay some brown. Just keep in mind that you might start to muddy up the grain a bit since there are several layers of color sitting on top of the wood. But since you can’t really “remove” color with this product, its sounds to me like the only feasible thing to do is try to tone down the red with brown, as you suggested. Let us know how it works out for you.
I was doing some random surfing when I came across this discussion about staining maple. We have an old american foursquare with wood floors we would like to refinish hidden beneath the carpet.
All original woodwork, columns, etc are dark (fir?)and the floors we have revealed seem to be maple. We were thinking of staining the floors dark to match the existing woodwork better, plus we like the look of the dark floors that are popular now. Are we crazy? Should we sand and leave them natural?
Hi Kathy. If you like the look of dark floors, then I say go for the darker color. What I would recommend though is getting a few scrap pieces of maple and testing out your finishing method first. You don’t want to experiment on the floor. Once you get the color you want and you are satisfied with the results, then you should be able to do the same thing on the floor.
Hi there,
This is a great site that I just discovered. My question is in regards to finding a gel stain that matches the gunstock colour by Minwax. Any suggestions? Minwax and Old Masters don’t carry it. Let me know, thanks!!
Hello Ginger. I am not familiar with that particular stain. In order to match it up I would need to do a little trial and error testing to see what get us as close as possible. What I would recommend doing is taking a sample board with the Gunstock color already applied to a local Rockler store. Ask them if they can test a few gel stain samples on your test board for you. That way you don’t have to buy a bunch of cans of stain you’ll never use.