Sawstop Inventor Puts His Money Where His Mouth Is
Many of us are well-aware of SawStop and their finger-saving technology. They came on the scene a few years ago showing us that the machine will apparently cut everything but a hot dog. That was cool an all, but apparently when cable TV is showcasing your product, you need to kick it up a notch. Inventor Steve Gass, while on a Discovery tv show actually demonstrated the product by using his own finger, instead of the lame old hot dog. FINALLY! Its actually a very cool clip so check it out. The link was sent to me by Michael. Thanks dude.
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Very cool. I keep coming back to the extra cost, but then quickly remind myself that I’m paying insurance to keep my fingers. What, $1k extra? Over 10 years that’s less than $10 / month insurance on my fingers.
Would you pay $10 each month to insure you don’t lose a finger at the TS? Since it’s a hobby for me and I use my fingers all day, every day, to make a living, that’s a no brainer.
I have a sawstop in my shop at school (college) and it is a great table saw, after having a powermatic for years, the sawstop is just as good, and way safer.
easy to use, love it.
worth every penny. i only have 10 fingers and so do my students.
That was insane! It does drive home the major selling point of the Sawstop.
I’m very temped to throw my steelcity on craigs list and get one of these. pricey, but so is a mangled hand….
I am torn as to whether that was a responsible thing to do or not.
He basically put his company on the line. Granted had it failed we might not have heard about it.
They talked about using a wet hot dog and we also saw video of the inventor sticking his fingers in water. Which makes me wonder if it stops slower with dry fingers. It’s still incredible and I would guess it stops in time to avoid serious damage, but I’m curious.
My guess Shawn is that the system is most effective when there is liquid involved. And after a few layers of skin, liquid will definitely be involved. lol. So I guess with a wet finger, you get a little tickle. With a dry finger you probably get a legitimate cut, but nothing requiring a hospital visit.
OMG OMG OMG!
I got so nervous and anxious watching that. I knew nothing was going to happen to his finger, but just the idea freaked me out! DANG! That is amazing!
Amazing! More impressive with an actual finger as opposed to a hotdog. Have to enjoy the high speed cameras as well.
How long before he sells the idea or other companies invent their own version? Once more companies are making their version of the Sawstop the price will hopefully go down.
notice how he put his finger straight into the blade, so that if it was cut, there would be a slice into the tip and more easily repaired, rather than approaching the blade with his finger perpendicular to the blade which would have sliced off a piece.
that is one “bitchiness” of a video !
have you hear about the airbus 320? in the launch flight this airplane crash in from of the TV cameras
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EM0hDchVlY
this plane was almost fully controlled by a computer , no way I would trust 100% in technology
Man that was awesome!!! This guy really has some faith in his product. So $60.00 for a new module and then $100.00 for a new WWII. All in all its still better than losing a finger.
Definitely took some balls… would have taken serious balls to test it in more realistic way… i.e. a feed rate faster than a snail… the hot dog tests are more realistic in feed rate and tell us a lot more than the finger demo… but still cool!
There are other associated costs also. New underwear, drugs to stop your heart from pounding…..
You know I thought that this was a great product. But when I heard about it just going off sometimes when there was actually no need I kinda changed my mind. So is that true that sometimes it just misfires and actually ruins the blade and module? Claude
Claude, I’ve heard that it can happen on very wet green wood (which shouldn’t be anywhere near your saw anyway), but that it is rare with the current batch. I’ve also heard that this is a rumor put out by the other saw manufacturers. That really isn’t hard to believe.
Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.
What if you are cutting wet wood? They do make a contractor saw, so if you are on the job site and have to cut a wet piece of ply wood or something, can you shut the sensors off?
SAW VI - woodworkers nightmare in theaters today!! Okay, that is bad, but the video - incredible. Best example of any safety equipment I have ever seen.
I actually saw it on Time Warp last night. At first I thought I was going to get the lecture from the wife when he said 10 fingers get cut off every day. My wife actually thought it was cool! I think he would have licked his finger if he wanted it wet. I think he had it in ice water to numb it, just in case. Very cool video of a very cool saw.
after watching Sicko I can see why you guys would need that but up here in the great white north finger replacement is free!!!! just kidding!!! I have to say though for the price i would expect the BMW of saws and not stamped steel wings!? what’s up with that? oh ya T-Chisel does a demo of touching the side of the blade then turning it on and it doesn’t move http://www.tchisel.com/Video/Episode_6.html
wow that is crazy!
For anyone who hasn’t see the hot dog trick, you can view a quick video of it here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sf7FOyv8zI
being one who has experienced the “trama” and financial of a major tablesaw accident…whatever price it sells for its worth it…I am a major supporter and advocator of the products…but outside of the safety, its the finest saw i ever owned and i have had them all…just the facts…oh yea 8 months of being unable to work, and tens of thousands of $ in medical, and i have good insurance…the cost of the saw is nothing…ever been on your knees screaming in physical therapy, and concerned how you gonna feed your family at the same time….hope not…get the saw..you wont regret it..excellent Marc, later big guy
Still amazes me everytime. The way the blade just disappears. Good on him for doing that.
At some point wasn’t Sawstop trying to get legislation passed to REQUIRE all saws be equipped with their device?
I am nothing but impressed with their product, but I would specifically NOT buy a product from a company trying to use the legislature as their marketing dept.
WOW still too crazy to put your finger through the blade anyhow.
Ok, I think the technology that went into the Saw Stop is awesome. That being said, let me tell you how I REALLY feel…
If you are stupid enough to run a saw (or any other tool for that matter) unsafely, perhaps you should reconsider hobbies.
Lets be real. I’ve heard of people doing things so terribly unsafe (running a cut without a push block, running the blade fully extended, not using eye or ear protection) it would make Evil Knevil cringe! Its just good practice to do safe things!
The Saw Stop is a wonderful idea. But, if you run your equipment with safety in mind and are doing all the right things, isn’t it kind of like putting training wheels on sneakers?
That’s just my couple of pennies…
I wonder what that 1000 Gs that they mentioned in the video does to the arbor?
There are two Sawstops (cabinet version) at the shop I use, and the store is a dealer. I don’t believe they have had any non-warrented firings of the brake mechanism in several years of heavy use.
While it is true that very wet wood can conduct enough current to fire off the brake, I recently ran some cedar through that was quite damp in the middle without it firing. I then learned that the brake can be turned off fairly easily by turning and holding a key that is built into the on/off switch while turning on the saw. There are two indicatator lights on the switch that will flash a pattern to indicate that the sensing mechanism is being bypassed. The only gotcha is you have to turn the key every time you turn on the saw, you can’t just disable it and forget it, as far as I know.
As I understand it, the inventor took his technology to the major saw manufacturers first. None of them wanted to buy it, somehow thinking that introducing such a safety innovation would cause them liability for their existing saws that didn’t have it. Plus they would have to increase their prices. So he decided to design, manufacturer, and market his own cabinet saw including the feature, and seems to have made a winner. The contractor’s version in the video is brand new, but has the same brake mechanism as the cabinet saw.
I’m sure other builders would have a hard time getting around his patent, and would still face their liability concerns, should they try to make something similar.
Regarding the question about what the G forces do to the arbor…this shop had a demo saw that they took to woodworking shows. They demonstrated the feature several times a day. So that saw has probably seen 50 firings. It is now one of the two in the shop for our use, and it feels just like a new one. No vibrations or other noticable differences, even after all those firings.
I don’t work for either the shop or Saw Stop, these are just my observations as a user.
$1000 to never cut off my finger/hand/chest/face… a bargain. I will upgrade to it.
To people that say if you do everything correctly, then you should never need this technology, I say “That’s why they are called accidents.” People - safety conscious people - hurt themselves all the time. It could be from being sleepy, tired, working too long, a distraction, anything. Even events beyond your control can cause an accident in the shop. It’s the same reason that cars have seat belts, air bags, and car seats. Things will go wrong no matter how safe of a driver you are.
There is a test feature that allows you to check the material you are going to cut before you turn on the blade so it isn’t just up to chance. You can test your material by touching it to the blade and then decide whether or not to disable the safety feature. I’m not so sure about all the talk about extra price. Did you know that the specks on the cabinet style exceed even those of Powermatic?
So, after reading all these great comments, I think I finally have something to say, lol. For a while now, I have had some sort of negative feeling the SawStop system. And I haven’t really been able to put my finger on where that was coming from. I mean, the safety benefits are clear. There is also no debate that the performance and quality of the saw is very high. But there is still something that bothers me about it. And honestly it just keeps coming back to the fact that they are the ONLY company doing this. Someone used the analogy of seatbelts and airbags. And in terms of safety, I can see that point. But in terms of regulations, we are talking apples and oranges. Seatbelts come in every car and you are usually required by law to wear one. Airbags are just about standard equipment on cars nowadays. These things aren’t just “available” safety options. They are safety requirements. Unfortunately, that’s not at all the case with tablesaws (with the exception of riving knives). It bugs the hell out of me that the other tool manufacturers aren’t either licensing this technology, or creating their own. And it bugs me even more to think that if you want this safety feature, you have no other choice but SawStop. I don’t mean to take anything away from them, since they are truly innovators in this space.
Is there too much liability, or perhaps not enough profitability, for the big boys to jump into this area? Is it just sour grapes because of the whole attempted legislation business a few years back?
Let me derail this a little bit with my own analogy. My dogs have been raised on a PetsMart housebrand dogfood that used to be known as OvenBaked. I used to sell Pet Food for a while and am pretty familiar with identifying a good dog food vs a bad dog food. For the price, I could not find anything better at the time. And my dogs loved it. Things have been great for years and all of a sudden, my local store wasn’t carrying it anymore. Wonderful. Its not like I can buy the stuff anywhere else. So I did a little more research and picked up my next closest alternative. After a few days, one of the dogs had a major itching fit. Something didn’t agree with her. Fortunately, Petsmart soon replenished their stock and everything was ok. But this happened again a few months ago and I had to switch food again, this time assuming that they weren’t carrying the house brand anymore. And sure enough, the other dog had a major itching problem. Ugh. So again, Petsmart restocked their aisles and we are in good shape. The point here is not to tell you that my local Petsmart sucks, but to show you what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket. While this dog food was a terrific product and my top choice in that price range, I am now in a position where if they take it off the market, I am screwed. One company, producing one unique product, is kind of a scary investment. And we are talking about the last tablesaw you will ever buy, so this decision cannot be taken lightly.
I realize I might be letting my business sense cloud my common sense here a bit. But I am just playing devil’s advocate.
First of all, great video. Man I don’t think I would do that. My first thought about the water was that he was Numbing his finger. Just in case, plus he didn’t want to feel the little knick that it gives.
As for your questions about why no one else is doing it. I would think that Saw Stop most likely have a few patents on this technology. I would guess that they are going to try and make it hard for other companies to try to steal and/or copy there technology. I mean if I had come up with it I would. Plus I have read before that when he came up with the idea, he shopped it around and none of the major tool players wanted it. SO he did the next best thing and made his own table saw and made sure that no one else could copy him.
I can agree with mark that you must be aware that this is only one company offering the product.
But, that doesn’t mean that you cannot take the risk. You can risk your investment for the safety of your body.
I personally did that when I bought the cutting system I use. Only one small company makes the product and I’m aware of the risk. If they go out of business I’m not screwed but I will need to make a big investment and I will need to learn everything again. For the safety I get from the system, I take the risk.
Andres.
I cut all 4 fingers 2 1/2 years ago an one is gone after I reflexively tried to knock a board away after a kickback. Of course the board was gone by the time my hand got there. Man that was really fast - I can’t believe I just did that.
This week a friends brother in law got all 4 of his fingers after 30 years in the business and it looks like his hand can be saved He put his hand behind the blade to push a board down and it kicked back dragging his hand through the blade. My friend said he was thinking this is stupid just before it kicked back and his next thought was just how fast it happened. The board went through the wall. He couldn’t believe he just did that.
Last month a friend from our church a contractor for 20 years ran his thumb into a blade sliced the tendon. He just pushed the board though with his hand in line with the blade. After years of lecturing his crew about safety.
People have bad days, or just one second. My physical therapist said most people say their first thought is I can’t believe I just did that.
Mark
Those of us with gray hair recall when no automobiles had seat belts and the long drawn out testimonies and arguments regarding tooling, production lines etc. from the auto industry before congress mandated. They became standard equipment only after federal legislation. Then the states had to convince us to change our driving habits through state legislation that require their use.
In FWW issue #74 http://www.taunton.com/finewoo.....x?id=24107 William Duckworth associate editor has a side bar describing the history of Gass’ attempts at selling his patent to the major manufacturers from his perspective (the saw companies would not comment for FWW).
I have enjoyed the benefits of an Inca 10″ saw for more than 20 years with it’s integral riving knife design as an aid to help prevent kickback. It is interesting that only in the last couple of years are they finally appearing on US table saws.
In another 20-30 years our children (my grandchildren) will benefit from this design.
I have been using Sawstop for the past year here in Oakland, CA at the Laney College cabinetry and furniture making program (see the video about the program here: http://www.laney.peralta.edu/a.....p?$1=30163). Five horse power, 220, three-phase screamers. Sweet. Why would a school use anything else? Why would a commercial shop replace old saws with anything else? Insurance will settle the argument, and the industry will ultimately come around, kicking and screaming as seems to be the way of American industry in the face of logical improvements (see: Seat Belts, American auto industry). All it’s going to take is a couple of huge lawsuits.
I work in a cabinet shop with two Unisaw screamers, and they give me pause. When it came down to buying a saw for my home shop I invested in the EZ Smart system (see, http://www.eurekazone.com/), as close I can get to Sawstop safety this side of Sawstop and without bankrupting myself a la Festool. My thinking is, when my shop can pay for a Sawstop, then I’ll invest in a table saw. Why, in my right mind, would I do anything else? Look how long it took for the industry to accept the riving knife, or the blade guard. Kicking and screaming.
All this said, Sawstop tablesaws will kickback just as readily as any other tablesaws, so let’s get real. What are the real accident statistics? What’s most likely to happen? And, from the Laney College shop experience, false firings (7 thus far) have been a big issue. You lose the cartridge and the blade. Do the math. It’s an adjustment thing.
Cheers, Schuyler
While new table saws in the US are coming with riving knives, this too has been legislated. They aren’t doing it because they wanted to. The problem with the legislation is that it says all new designs/models of table saws must have riving knives after a certain date, not all saws manufactured after a certain date. A manufacturer could continue to sell an older design without the knife as I understand it. Of course once one does it, the others are more likely to announce a new model with the same feature to stay competitive. And riving knives are cheap to add vs. something like the Sawstop brake.
What a wonderful invention! After all these years of paimstaking care to preserve my fingers, I can at last throw caution to the wind and not be concerned about a table saw hurting me. No more blade guards, hold-downs, feather boards, or pusher sticks. I can relax and be as sloppy as I want, secure in the knowledge that someone has finally responded to the lowest common denominator in table saw usage. Yup, the ultimate safety device, rendering all other safety devices and practices obsolete or superfluous. I would wager that on a large scale a lot more fingers are going to get lost after this device becomes commonplace.
This reminds me of Richard Davis a guy who improved the bulletproof vest. The way he marketed his improved vest that he made was to go around the country shooting himself at point blank range to prove that his product works. Check out the video about his story at the link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y44CdrBsfs
Marc,
I asked a Sawstop salesperson that very question about longevity. I could be using the same tablesaw for many years and pass it down to my son. What happens if Sawstop is gone. I got an interesting answer. First, the saw is a good one regardless. It incorporates a riving knife and it’s a well built saw. So, worst case I still have a good saw but it’s not got a functional brake. Second, if Sawstop is gone, the patent isn’t protected and another manufacture could pick up and make the brakes. I did feel a little better with thinking that it would still function regardless.
That was my last big issue holding me back. I had several very good conversations with a few folks at Sawstop just to get an idea of what they were like personally. All seemed genuinely nice.
And I just placed my order for a contractor version with cast tops this week.
I am a systems consultant and injuring my hands just seemed to be a big risk. I do practice good safety but accidents do happen.
And there goes the whole tool budget for a year!
Interesting, although I think similar could be done with calipers like a disk brake so you wouldn’t lose your blade if it goes off. Also, he might as well have touched the side of the blade as lightly as he touched it. I would rather have seen him lay his thumb across the path of blade travel and shoved a piece of wood through as if he was really cutting.
when is this coming out for circular saws? Next to a tablesaw I reckon that’s the next best way to cut yourself.