Impressions: Incra LS32-TS Table Saw Fence System
December 21, 2007 | Filed Under Blog
Many of you have emailed me about my experiences with the Incra LS32-TS Table Saw Fence System. If you’ve followed the videos in order, you will notice that in Episode 30, I was very excited to have this “high end” fence on my tablesaw. Many of you soon noticed that I was back to my old Powermatic fence shortly thereafter. I certainly do owe everyone an explanation.
Before I go into the details here, I would first like to talk about product reviews. I am by no means a “reviewer”. I don’t have standardized testing procedures and I really don’t care to. All I can do is tell you how a product worked in my hands. That doesn’t necessarily indicate how it will work in your hands. But I do feel the “everyday man” approach can sometimes be much more informative than the formal, over-complicated, and “out of touch with the real world” scenarios we read about in many publications. So please take my comments with a grain of salt. They are, after all, one man’s experience.
So why did I upgrade the fence in the first place? I was very happy with my Powermatic fence, but I really liked the idea of micro-adjustability and increased accuracy. I wasn’t convinced that I NEEDED it. I just WANTED it. I am sure you can relate. After all, Incra has a reputation for unparalleled precision and accuracy (excuse the pun). And who wouldn’t want a little more accuracy.
The system was pretty straight forward and the instructions clear. The kit came with a excellent DVD as well. Everything was going smoothly until it was time to align the fence with the blade. In my case I just used my miter slot. Alignment of the fence is accomplished by tightening down the 8 screws that hold the positioner in place on the far right side of the saw. Now for initial setup, I am not very picky. I actually use my fingers to determine whether the fence is parallel with the miter slot (surprisingly accurate, by the way). I would position the fence and tighten the screws. Then I would release the fence, push it all the way to the right and then back to the miter slot. When I would clamp it down, the alignment would be slightly off. I proceeded to go through what felt like a trial and error-style setup procedure for another hour. And when it was all said and done, I was still not confident the fence was locking into exactly the same position every time. Several week’s later, I felt the same way.
One of the great features of this system is the micro adjustability. Once you have your fence lined up for a cut, you can raise the cam clamp into the first position, which engages the lead screw. At that point you can use the little click wheel to make adjustments down to 0.002″. Pretty cool. To completely secure the fence for a cut, you pull the cam clamp to the second position and then tighten a small thumb screw at the user end of the fence itself. Despite the extra security, I really never felt confident that the fence was locking down perfectly parallel to the blade every time. It actually reminded me of the lack of confidence I used to have in my first Craftsman tablesaw fence. I remember having to make sure the fence was completely snug against the rail before clamping down, otherwise it would be skewed. 
Now the Incra wasn’t quite THAT bad, but the fact remained that I was still experience this lack of trust. On my Powermatic system, I can have the fence tweaked in one direction or the other, and when the clamp comes down that sucker pops into place whether it likes it or not. As a result I have complete confidence in the alignment of the Powermatic fence. Unfortunately, after several weeks with the Incra I was never able to build up that confidence.
To be honest, I was willing to live with these “issues”, or at least deal with them for a little while longer. But then came my first big project with the new system. I had to make a simple cabinet out of 3/4″ Baltic Birch. I thought it would be a great test of the new fence. And it actually revealed to me what, at least in my shop, proved to be the Achilles Heel of the entire system: limited rip capacity. The widest rip it could handle was 29″. Now I could certainly live with that if I had no other option, but apparently I had become so accustomed to having full cabinet saw rip capacity, that this was the deal breaker. Now I know you can shift the fence rails and readjust everything for the wider cut, but that’s just too much darn work for me. So I spent another day removing the Incra, and replacing it with my old Powermatic. And I have to tell you, it was like taking off a pair of uncomfortable dress shoes and slipping back into my perfectly worn Adidas sneakers.
I think I have been avoiding this write-up simply because of the overall negative tone. I have read so many positive reviews about this system that I began second-guessing my own experiences. So if you have experiences with the Incra system that differ from mine, please feel free to respond to this post. And if you are interested in this fence system, try to find a friend that has one so you can get get some hands on time for yourself. To be fair, the Incra system is a huge upgrade from most cheapo fences that come on contractor saws (although these are getting better every year). But if you have a decent t-square fence that is in working order, I don’t think I would recommend the Incra unit as an upgrade. To me, the things I lost were not worth what little I gained. But if you are the type of person who values micro-adjustability on a tablesaw and you don’t mind taking the time to occasionally change the setup for different cuts, you might thing this fence is a worthwhile investment.
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25 Responses to “Impressions: Incra LS32-TS Table Saw Fence System”
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Just this week upgraded my table saw fence to the Vega Pro. It also has a built in micro adjust…. although not incremental like the Incra, you can still figure out how far one turn moves the fence, and I have to say that I am very happy with the upgrade. The 50 inches to the right of the blade and the comfort in knowing the fence is parallel to the blade was the main reason for the upgrade, but the micro adjust is also nice. It was also considerably less than the Biesemeyer. I had checked out the Incra at the last wood show, and I just wasn’t convinced it was sturdy enough for reliable precision. It sounds like I made the right decision, thanks for the blunt and straightforward review.
Thanks for taking time to share your experience, Marc. I’m sure the Incra fence system works well for a lot of people. Obviously, in your case it did not. As they say, YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary.)
I currently have a T-square fence from MuleCab which works quite well. I had considered trying the Incra. Your experience will likely save me a lot of time and money by sticking with my MuleCab.
I wasn’t considering one but wondered what happened. The only Incra products I have experience with are the rules. At my age I can barely see a .5mm pencil mark and lead that small breaks REALLY easy on wood. The 6″ Incra square rule is my favorite tool for transferring marks from one side to another, its much easier to hold in place than a combination square… not that that has anything to do with a table saw fence.. but they are far more precise than my ability.
Hey Marc — I have been wondering how you liked this fence. I have had mine for probably about 2 years and it’s definitely been a love/hate relationship. Still better than what came with my saw, but if I was able to do it again, I would probably go with something else for the reasons you mentioned plus others…
Mark,
Years ago I bought one of the early Incra all metal table saw fences. I had the same issues as you. I didn’t like the beam hanging way out off the side of the saw when I was cutting a wide board (limited shop space at the time). The set up was a little too finicky as well.
I had a contractor saw at the time, sold the Incra fence, bought a new standard fence and never looked back. To me it was just too gimmicky.
That was years ago and I’ve since graduated to a professional cabinet saw.
Kevin
Thanks for the heads up Marc, hey while we are on the subject, do have a recommendation for a good/acurate/affordable miter gauge for my PM 64A??? The gauge that came with it is junk it seems like, I mean it doesn’t even fit tight in the slot so it is impossible to get a perfect 90* cut…I really thought at this level of saw (I know it isn’t the best, but it is a great saw) that everything would be perfect…I was thinkin about the KREG, but that is just b/c I have a pocket screw jig of theirs and it seems really well built and accurate…Thanks!
Hi,
Thanks for the review. I’ve watched the fancy Incra DVD promoting their fences and was impressed, but when I saw one at Rockler, I wasn’t impressed with the plastic parts.
Did you give Tech Support at Incra a chance to help you out?
What was your experience.
Keep up the great shows and blogs!
Hey Jason. I can tell you that just about any after-market miter gauge will be a significant upgrade from the stock one. I personally use (and love) the Incra 2000. The Kreg looks pretty cool too. Again, I don’t think you have to worry too much about which one to get as the will all perform pretty well. I can safely recommend the Incra’s.
Mitch. I did not call tech service simply because these were fundamental issues with the system. I honestly didn’t think there was a darn thing tech service could do for me. That is unless they offer a “re-engineering service”. :)
Marc, I must say I do love my Inca TS Fence but I just received as a gift a new Jet cabinet saw with the 50″ fence. Of course the Incra is not long enough to fi the new saw I would have to replace parts or buy a new one and now you are worring me. I have been using the Xacta fence and like it, but it does not allow you to duplicate cuts like the Inca does. As far as the fence being suspended, mine was adjusted so it sat on the guides at either end of the fence, the ones you refered to as tightening down to secure the it. I believe I will just leave it on the old contracter’s saw and include it when I sell it.
Marc,
I just got one of these today and spent a bunch of time setting it up, but I haven’t seen the drooping you have been talking about. The guides along the back of the rail keep the fence itself supported, so you shouldn’t see any drooping.
On another note though, the entire thing is made out of aluminum and it’s going to not be quite as strong as the steel setups like a bies or unifence.
On my old PM 66 that has tubular rails it s quite an upgrade so I’m looking forward to trying it out over the coming weeks.
Brian
That is a nice fence, but the fact that you couldn’t trust it..that would bother me more than any other issue. You have to be able to trust your fence! I kinda knew that you wern’t going to like the limited rip capacity when you first put the fence on. I just couldn’t understand why you would want to go from 50″ to 39″? And you have the room for a 50″ fence too! Well, live and learn right! How would you have known if you didn’t try the thing out..
Marc,
I have the same fence and I could not be more happy with it. The Incra is considerably nicer and more functional, for me, that the Biesemeyer and Xacta II fences that I used prior to the Incra. I believe had you spent a little more time with the Incra, you would have discovered how to adjust it to fit the way you work. If you are inclined to give the Incra another chance, here are some tips to address the concerns that you had. Also, Mark at Incra tech support is an excellent resource if you run into problems; he assisted me with one of the issues that you raised and he was spot-on with the solution.
1) Alignment off when clamping the fence. The Incra rides on the main rails on 2 fence glides that attach to the back of the fence (pictured in the third photo that you posted). These glides have 4 nylon buttons each that contact the top of the main rails. If the fence goes out of alignment when these glides are tightened, then they need shimmed. The problem is that either the left two buttons or the right two buttons will not be in contact with the main rails when the fence glides are loose. When you tighten the glides, the buttons are forced to contact the rail, which distorts the fence slightly. This causes the fence to go out of alignment with the blade, and out of square with the table top also. If the right buttons are off the rail, place a thin shim above the bolts that attach the glide to the rail, reverse if the left buttons are off the rail. It does not take much of a shim-a piece of paper did the tricck for me.
2) Fence droops because the fence is suspended by the arm. Mine does not droop, so a call to tech support may be in order. Possibly the droop will take care of itself if the other issues discussed are addressed. Technically, the fence is suspended by the guides (see above) and the arm moves left-right to adjust the fence setting. When adjusted properly, there is no weight to speak of that is supported by the arm. Also note that the cardboard shims are not for making sure the fence sits perpendicular to the table top. These cardboard shims are used during initial setup to set the gap (about .050 inch) between the top of the table and the bottom of the fence. Once the initial setup is complete, these shims are not used again.
3) Rip capacity is limited to 29 inches. There is a lot of flexibility with the Incra system to get a rip capacity that meets the needs of the user. The recommended mounting of the main rails in the Incra manual will give the user 32 inches to the right of the blade and 16 inches to the left of the blade. If you were getting only 29 inches to the right, then I suspect that the base support was mounted too close to the blade. If you have a left-tilt saw and do not need to use the fence on the left side of the blade, then the main rails can be mounted further to the right. To rip pieces wider than 32 inches, the entire base assembly is loosened and moved to the right. Stops are included in the hardware so that you can move the base on the rails and back without loosing your settings. The included DVD is a great visual on how this works. I have mine set to give me 0-32 inches in the main position, and 16-48 inches in the far right position. As a final option, Incra offers as an option a set of 92 inch rails so you can have still have 16 inches to the left of the blade, nearly 50 inches to the right, or a whopping 70 inches of rip capacity with the longer rails mounted all the way to the right.
You may decide to try all the above and still find that the Incra is not to your liking and that’s fair, however I did want to point out that all the concerns that you experienced can be addressed with adjustments during the initial setup. The Incra is truly a wonderful fence when adjusted properly, and mine has stayed in adjustment. I’d hate to go back to using a T-square style fence again! If you do try the Incra again, good luck!
Thanks for the helpful info Greg. The real deal breaker for me, as I mentioned was the limited rip capacity. I remember adjusting it several times and the best I could do was 29″. Even if I could get the 31″ that extra 2″ really isn’ the issue. Its the 20″ or so I was missing. And the fence could have been the end all be all in every other regard and I still would have had to remove it based on the rip capacity. Based on the other issues I had with it, I had no desire to get the longer unit.
I also did make adjustments, as per the instructions, to the fence for alignment. I had things as snug as they could be just before the point of binding. Again, it just never felt reliable when it was locked down. In addition, the whole process of locking the fence down in two steps was awkward.
And I suppose the cardboard shim issue is a negative result of me waiting so long to write my impressions. I remember speaking with a viewer who had similar issues with the fence and he did call tech service and I believe he was told to shim the fence. Maybe he used the cardboard shims that came with the kit (I can’t recall). But I got it in my head that that’s what they were intended for. But you are absolutely correct, they are intended for use in setup only. I apologize for that.
The bottom line is that this fence was too finicky and unreliable in my hands. I guess I come from the school of thought that a fence should not be that much trouble to adjust and set up. And a fence with so many adjustments has an equal number of things that can go wrong with it. I guess the simplicity and reliability of a T-square fence are more my speed. I think Germain said it best: “Your mileage may vary.”
Why would anyone in their right mind spend over 400$ on a fence? I know because I did but it was an Excaliber fence. I was a pain getting the front and back rails attached to my old grizzey contractor saw but after that was done that fence worked great and you could have confidence in it. If fact it is still working great after about 15 years. I’ve since moved on to a Delta unifence and I like that too. It may not be the best but it is still very good. I’ve always thought that Incra products were too expensive and also kinda complicated for my use. I just don’t think that .001in. measurements have that much use in woodworking. But it sounds like you had about as much luck with that fence as I with Delta’s sliding table attachment that I spent 300$ on and then had to readjust it at least once a year to keep it halfway accurate. That got thrown away finally. I made myself a cut off jig that works every time all the time. Anyway Marc sorry about you wasting your money but join the club. Claude
Hey Marc (and fellow Wood Whispererites)
Does anyone have any thoughts about the Jointech system? It seems to have a some more positive locking features as opposed to the Incra. How about these “positioning fences” as compared to say a standard good t-square fence with the Wixey digital readout system add-on. I really like the idea of something digital / repeatable. If the Wixey system works well, you sure can’t beat the price. While it may not be the positive engaging system like the Incra and the Jointech, it seems you would be able to make repeatable cuts (at least to 1/32″) with the Wixey readout.
It seems to me tool and accessory opinions are very similar to the Mac/PC debate. People who are willing to tinker and enjoy doing so typically prefer the PC. People who want something that just works and continues to do so without fuss prefer the Mac.
Since Marc is a Mac person, I’m not surprised he wasn’t happy with the Incra fence. Since it requires a lot of tinkering, it seems to be more of a “PC” accessory. I’m wondering if there’s a conterpart fence which is more like a “Mac” accessory. Perhaps that would be the Biesmeyer and its clones.
Happy Christmas, everyone.
Marc — thanks for sharing your experiences with us. I was planning to treat myself to the Incra. Just when I thought this was going to be easy. I’d thought “If Marc has one… it has to be what I need”
Now I have no idea what system I should purchase. I’ve read a lot about the Biesmeyer and wonder if it wouldn’t be a better choice. The only thing I’m sure about is that I definitely need to upgrade.
I am not in any all fired hurry to buy the Incra but I’ve always eyed them. I bought their inexpensive mitre, added an incra fence to it later. Darn thing is the best mitre I’ve ever used. Love it.
The limit on ripping is not a problem for me as I tend to do that with a straight edge and my little P-C finish saw. Much easier than man handling a big sheet of plywood.
I normally don’t mind a bit of fussing either - if it’s done once. I hate repeat fussing. So I can see where you decided to raise the white flag and bail. I’m a Mac guy too (as I type on my IBM).
Anyway, Incra has a similar setup for the router and the router is really where my work flow could possibly benefit from the Incra system; more so than the tablesaw. Is this something you have considered, tested or possibly already done?
PS: I receive the Lie-Nielsen large router for christmas and it’s so darn windy outside I ain’t gonna play with it this weekend. :p
Marc - thanks for the info and your experience with the Incra fence. I have been thinking about this fence for a while now, I will probably hold off on the table saw fence but, I have their super fence system for my router table, and love the repeatability of it. I find the setup before I use it a little time consuming, but that gets better the more I work with it. Once the setup is done for a particular bit, changes to the fence are way faster than the stock fence. I did run into a small problem with the initial setup , but I got a fast and accurate answer from Incra’s tech support. I love the fact that once the setup is done that I always know the distance from the center of the bit and from the outside of the bit to face of the fence. At least for the router fence I am very happy with it.
Realizing that you are a woodworker, a teacher, entertainer and defacto marketing rep (for your own on line store), it is refreshing that you provide both positive and critical comments on the products/tools you use. Since woodworking is a hobby for me, feel free to send any castaways to florida for further testing. Jk. Bruce AKA FLWoodRat.
I’m glad to hear your impressions on the fence, Mark - pretty much all the reviews I’ve read on the Incra fence have been completely positive, so it is great to hear some criticism. I have the router table version of this fence (the “LS Super System”) and I love it. I can’t see how any of the issues you have here would apply to the router table fence, so maybe some day you should give it a try! Anyway, thanks for the review!
Hi Marc,
I appreciate your honest review of the Incra TS fence. However, I don’t agree with your assessment and I think that Greg hit the nail on the head with his post. It’s all in the setup. Even if you need to tweek it a bit, once done it’s good to go.
You’re probably right in saying that the Incra fence just isn’t for you. I think you had your doubts about it before you even got it on your saw ;-) For me, the advantages of repeatability, micro adjustments and precision are well worth the cost and time spent in initial setup.
I personally love the Incra TS and find it a joy to use. I need the accuracy and repeatability because I do a lot of small cuts as opposed to cabinet sized cuts. The 32″ rip capacity is more than enough for me (besides, I don’t have room for 90″ fence rails). The magnetic ruler allows for quick resetting of the scale or zero-ing the fence when using auxilary or sacrificial add-ons. This feature alone is worth its weight in gold! I also have the Incra LS on my router table and love that for all the same reasons mentioned.
I just want to encourage anyone who was interested in the Incra to not scratch it off their list because of this one negative review. With the correct setup and adjustment, the Incra TS is an awesome upgrade to any saw. It offers a lot of advantages over other fences and contrary to Marc’s experience, I find that it locks down very solidly without distortion or binding and doens’t need complex setup. The fact that there are numerous adjustments that you CAN make just ensures the accuracy you can achieve. I didn’t have any problems getting mine perfectly aligned when I set it up but it was (and still is) a comfort to know that I can tweek it in many ways if needed.
Incra customer services has been awesome to work with as well. I recently upgraded from a contractor to cabinet saw and needed some help. I actually spoke to a real person each time I called and was treated like royalty.
Marc, you gave a fair review from your perspective. I just hope that others aren’t discouraged by your negative experience. They really should listen to your advice and take your comments with a “grain of salt” :)
Thanks,
Joe
Joe sells/works or owns a piece of Incra - could he be more obvious!
I heard similar issues with the system inn other forums and WAS considering it, but not any more. I am an Engineer and find it hard to understand why these systems are built/designed in a way to make it difficult for the end users to have a positive experience right out of the box. I hear countless people saying that they had to “tweak” (I say repair something poorly manufactured) their machinery/tools and things are fine. I bought a Delta band saw and had to shim it to get it co-planer. That step should have been done in the QA part of the tool plant.
Marc made it clear, that for Him, this product was not a good fit, and tried to be nice to Incra and yet still convey his honest “opinion”, which is His right.
Keep being honest Marc!
Rolf
Hello All:
I am a home woodworker and have had an Incra LS for several years on my old Rockwell table saw. It has revolutionized my wood working. I am also an engineer, and love this fence for its accuracy and repeatabiltiy. It is very enjoyable to cut wood at the table saw and not use a tape measure. Before buying the fence, I also read the reviews, some of which were negative. I have not experienced any issues with the fence. It may take a little more to install and initially setup than some are used to, but, once set up, no further adjustment is necessary.. Re-adjustment for the larger rip capapity is not a big deal, its over in 5 minutes, and then another 5 minutes to set it back to original location.
When I initially got the fence, I called the Tech folks at Incra regarding the thrust adjustment on the lead screw–they were very helpful and answered my questions quickly, and fixed what I thought was a problem–but it wasn’t, it was just an adjustment.
I love the fence so much, I just ordered the jointery package for dovetailing and other joints.
I have had a very positive experience with the Incra Fence, the Incra Tech Support, and the company I purchased the fence from, Woodpeckers.
Lew
Marc,
I was posting a long explanation of the advantages of the Incra TSIII-32. One member commented that you had a bad review of it, so I looked it up, and was surprised.
Please do me a favor, and read the entire thread from page 1, listen to everything that I have to say about the Incra fence, and I have Powermatic equipment PM66 5hp, 8″ jointer, and hollow chisel mortiser stand up station and love them. I have the Accu fence and love it as well.
But this review is a clear cut misunderstanding of how the Incra fence works.,
You do not have to publish this reply/comment, but I would serously study my post, and hopefully correct your review.
I spoke with you in the past, and appreciate you taking the time to get back to me.
Here is a link to my post at SMC. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/sh.....post759936