I love featuring unique stuff like this on the site. My grandpa used to own a fishing tackle store back in Jersey, so I know my way around a tackle box, although I never got into fly fishing. I did, however, pack my share of nightcrawlers! Jeff makes some beautiful reel seat inserts, but is also looking for some input on finishing. Let’s see what he has to say:
I turn wood cylinders known as reel seat inserts. These inserts are installed into nickel silver hardware and installed on fly fishing rods. The reel seat holds the fly reel on the base of the fly rod. I start with “blanks” that are ideally 7/8″ square by about five inches (as little as 3.5″ is acceptable, but after turning it helps if you can select the best grain for the exposed barrel). On the lathe I bore a 3/8″ hole lengthwise and mount the blank on a mandrel.
The mandrel is locked into a four jaw chuck on the headstock, and the other end of the mandrel is mounted onto a 60 degree live center mounted into the tailstock. Conventional turning tools and sandpaper are used to turn the wood down to a specified diameter. A parting tool is used to make a square cut down to the #4 diameter.
Note that I didn’t mention the diameter the barrel is turned to. This is because I’ve been using techniques where I build up finish with successive coats of CA, moisture cure urethane (MCU), spar urethane, specific epoxy, etc. So I turn well beyond the #2 diameter, then wet sand and polish back down to #2 diameter.
Rod building component companies sell the nickel hardware in the photos. They also sell wooden inserts made from various woods. The standard wood inserts are around $8 and up. My problem with OEM inserts is that they’re sometimes bland, and their finishes mar easily when reels are put on and taken off of the reel seat, and they don’t repel water especially well. Thus the desire to make my own. Though there are quite a few people doing this, there doesn’t seem to be a “best” finish technique. I’m a bit of a perfectionist, so I seek a process that is attractive, and very durable. I want the rod to wear out before my woodworking does. And I want the finish to repel water very well.
Problems encountered:
With CA, any inadvertent introduction of moisture causes blushing. CA sands and polishes very nicely, but its hardness can be a problem. With moisture cure urethane (MCU), any failure to remove all bubbles results in tiny white craters when sanded, but MCU remains somewhat flexible.Initially I made the #3 cut prior to doing any finishing. This worked fairly well, but getting a even finish buildup at the cut was difficult. Then I tried finishing the entire length of the turned piece, then cut the #3 cut. With softer finishes a clean #3 cut was difficult as the finish heated easily and sometimes separated from the exposed surface. Not desirable. Even making the final length cut with a parting tool left a bad edge. Ideally the finish would tolerate cutting the #3 edge after the finish is applied and finish sanded.
While I have some very acceptable inserts on my fly rods, I can’t say that I’ve developed what I feel is a foolproof, fairly easily repeatable finishing technique. My goal is a finish that doesn’t show grain dimples when I’m finished, has a nice square #3 shoulder cut, doesn’t scuff easily and won’t crack if the wood changes shape (as in adding or losing moisture). As you will see in the images, finishes continue (even CA) shrinking after final shaping even though I generally wait at least five days after finishes are applied.
So folks, what do you think? Any opinions to help Jeff find an option that will work for him?
17 Responses to “Fishing Reel Seat Inserts – Viewer Project”
Perhaps you’ve already tried this, but given the exposure to water, I would go the route of wooden boats: marine grade epoxy (such as MAS), followed by a few coats of marine varnish for UV protection. I do not have any experience with a lathe, but I suspect that the epoxy would handle any post-finish cuts nicely. Good luck and nice work!
I think Mark B. is on the right track. I was also wondering if a vacuum bag would help to impregnate the wood (with the larger pore woods) with a little more of the epoxy as well.
I took a rod building class when I was younger and have built a few – I still use the first fly rod I built back in ’86 – you’ve inspired me to give it another go – with my own real seat insert.
Have you considered turning them out of stabilized wood? It’s super tough, totally stable and moisture proof, hard as hell, and buffs out to a high polish. The finish is completely inside the wood, so it can’t crack, chip or peel. And you can turn it to the exact dimensions without needing to allow for finish coats. Available in small pieces, in a bewildering selection of highly figured woods from numerous suppliers of knife making materials. Here’s one for example:
http://www.knifeandgun.com/Sea.....asp?Cat=47
DD
Jeff,
I have done a few of these and the oldest is 6 years old now with constant usage. It is a zebrawood insert on a great little restored bamboo rod that I use for small freshwater streams. Like Mark B says above I used a marine varnish that I got from West Marine. I thinned it and applied coats to the spinning lathe until I built up a solid layer and high gloss. No problems parting it off or any noticeable damage to the finish 6 years later. I have done one with CA and so far no problems but it is only 1 season old right now. Try the Marine varnish it seems to work.
Im sorry but I don’t have any advice for you. I just wanted to comment on how beautiful those are!
Along the lines of what Mark B said, try CPES (Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer). It is sold by Jamestown Distributors for boating applications primarily. They have a number of videos on using the product. For this application, you’d want to toss the turned item in a bag full of CPES and let it soak it in.
It is an epoxy, but it is thinner and slower setting so it gets far into the wood displacing water and later repelling water.
The finish looks like a high gloss (in my 2 projects that used it) so you could easily sand it to a sheen you want. As an epoxy impregnated wood, my guess is that it would turn nicely for the rest of the turning, but then I don’t turn :-/
Good luck! Report back your findings!
Sounds like Paul is going with what I thought of for the reel seats. Being an Avid fly fisherman and tyer I would find out about the acrylic that Blue Spruce toolworks uses on their tool handles. Check out the site the maple handles just pop.
http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.....y=DBPN.313
They have fish in New Jersey?
Those insert are quite beautiful.
You guys are really great! I really appreciate all the input.
Since writing to Marc I have continued turning inserts and experimenting with finishing techniques. A few months ago I met a fantastic gunstock maker and finisher – a true artist. He generously walked me through the process he uses on walnut gunstocks, which are exposed to the same environment fly rods are exposed to.
The methods I had used to date all entailed an entombing of the wood in something – CA, Spar, Moisture Cure Urethane, Casting Epoxy, etc. then sanding and polishing back. All can and do yield nice results. But the most recent dozen or so were finished with Pro Custom Oil, a modified Tung oil designed for gunstocks. The wood is now turned to target diameter then a fraction of a drop of PCO is rubbed into the wood’s surface with my index finger. Depending on the type of wood, and whether I want to try to close all pores, 10-25+ coats are required. Between coats the insert sits in a make-shift incubator at around 95 degrees. I believe the PCO will provide adequate moisture barrier and while remaining durable and flexible. Any abuse the insert receives will simply add “character”.
I have used some epoxies that offer UV protection and may consider a thin sealer coat in the future for the protection and to seal pores. Some of the wood I’ve worked with has been stabilized, and in the past I have purchased inserts made from stabilized wood. I actually found that stabilized wood did take on water and swelled some. So I plan to apply finish to stabilized wood. CA is something that I have attained nice results with, but find that something as simple as varying weather conditions have influenced my ability to get a consistent result with no flaws or blushes. In addition, I actually had one CA finish (thankfully not a fishing rod) that developed hundreds of micro-fractures in the very hard CA. I can only think that the wood swelled or contracted and of course the CA couldn’t.
Paul-Marcel, thanks for pointing out the sealer. I am interested in something like this for softer woods that I wouldn’t mind firming up before finishing.
Shannon, I did an insert in Zebrawood recently and it was a great wood to work with and finish.
Again, thanks everyone – I appreciate all the suggestions. Now I need to generate an outlet for the ones I’ve been working with. Turning them and working on finishing techniques have become an obsession that is keeping me away from preparing for the upcoming flyfishing season.
Best Regards,
Jeff
There are also more flexible formulas of CA glue which might work better for you.
I’ve had pretty good luck with the following brand:
http://www.mercuryadhesives.com/MercuryFAQ.htm
DD
Blue Spruce Toolworks creates a Wood-Plastic Composite (WPC) by introducing acrylic-based monomers into the wood’s matrix using pressure and heat. In the end, it is like a solid acrylic handle with this foreign body called ‘wood’ in it.
According to Bruce Hoadley, the resulting WPC is very easy to turn, shape, etc. I’m guessing that David Jeske gets his blanks infused first then turns them as they would be more stable.
Like Viall8r suggested, try contacting him. I’d bet he gets the blanks processed elsewhere.
Owners of his chisels and mallet say neither one shows any impact damage since the acrylic is so hard.
Just kinda throwing this out there… Why not a high end wax finish?
For the majority of my turnings (including Pens) I have always used a wax finish and typically it lasts a long time and builds character over time as it is exposed to the natural oils of your hands. Wax also typically repels water pretty well. The other nice thing about wax… it can be reapplied at a later date.
Man….so nice!
I make fishing lures, so dealing with wood soaking in water has taught me sealing the wood is the most important part in finishing. You might want to try CPES (CLEAR PENETRATING EPOXY SEALERâ„¢). After the sealing, epoxy or just wax will leave you with a very lasting finish. I like wax as it’s part of the ritual of fishing to caress ur equipment when you are not fishing ;)
LaPala,
I’m considering using a product something like this as a first coat, then applying the oil-urethane finish I’m presently using (Pro Custom Oil). Are you aware of any adhesion issues I might run into?
Jeff
CPES as first coat (or 2 coats) would basically penetrate and seal off the pores of the wood. If you use a second penetrating oil finish, it will not have the desired results as the wood is already sealed and would not offer the 2nd material anywhere to go except on the surface. That’s why I suggest wax as subsequent finish which will enhance wood grains. And like Drew said can be reapplied later. Wax feels good on the hand too.
Thanks LaPala,
Your post reminded me of one of my finishing experiments. I used very thin, durable water based polyurethane to heavily coat a nice piece of eyed redwood burl. This finish did absolutely nothing to enhance the wood grain. The wood looked very bland under the water based poly. I don’t know what CPES will do to the appearance of the woods I use. Regarding wax, I have decided to try Renaissance Wax on my oil/urethane finished wood inserts after they’ve been installed onto a fishing rod, and will coat the nickel silver as well. I’ve heard a lot of good things about this wax.
Jeff