Comments on: 47 – Turning Water into Oil

By: Scott Fuller

Scott Fuller — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:37:10 +0000

Mark,

Thanks so much for your follow up. I know it is shellac, as alchohol will soften/remove it. I was most curious as to whether it would be a problem on new pieces, as I never would have thought to use shellac as you describe, given what I knew about it. Charles’ response seems to indicate that the refining process has changed such that it shouldn’t be an issue. His description of the old finish as horrible is apt – I have seen many houses where the shellac has turned very dark, cracked, and even blistered with age. These have all been pre-1940 or so.

Thanks again,
Scott

By: thewoodwhisperer

thewoodwhisperer — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:36:08 +0000

Hey Scott. Just heard back from Charles Neil. Here’s what he had to say: “The older shellacs were not as well refined, they and varnish both turned black, way back in history. We used to make a lot of money stripping and refinishing pianos..that had blackened and cracked. looked horrible. We simply used some denatured alcohol and washed the finish off…it should do the same for your reader..if its shellac. If not its varnish…that’s a little tougher to get off. Some of the older shellacs were also bad about softening and years of grit and grime contributed. One last thing, the pine will darken with age as well, and I would suspect it’s a combo of the two processes.”

By: thewoodwhisperer

thewoodwhisperer — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:50:48 +0000

Hey Scott. I have to admit man, you have me stumped here dude. I have no idea what could have caused that. Shellac is a classic tried and true finish that endures for many years. And whether used as a sealer or a topcoat, I would never expect it to turn black. But that doesn’t mean it can’t happen. let me put my feelers out and see if I can get some info for you on this.

By: Scott Fuller

Scott Fuller — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:45:19 +0000

We have a house built in 1910 with pine trim that had shellac finish. Over the years, it has turned almost black. Is this only a problem if it is used as a final finish as opposed to a seal coat? Would it have anything to do with wax in it?

Really enjoy your videos!

By: Dan Oelke

Dan Oelke — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:07:07 +0000

If you still have the test boards – it might be nice to see a comparison photo now that it is 3 months later (and then again after 1 year)

From my understanding – the oil finishes will turn more amber with time and/or UV exposure. I would guess that the BLO and OIL boards will be a bit different in their color.

Of course this means that you have a moving target if you want to use water based finish and dye or shellac as your coloring agent. Do you target the color of a just finished oil based piece or the color after a year or more?

By: chris

chris — Mon, 05 May 2008 17:56:16 +0000

Although you mentioned it as a fourth option, I think it would have been beneficial to the experiment to show the effects of using dye to tint a finish. I’ve been using a small amount of Transtint Honey Amber Dye Stain to tint General Finishes High Performance WB Topcoat for the last two or three jobs and it works great. In my mind, it’s a lot simpler too, because once you tint it you just finish the same way you normally would. Thanks for your work. I’m a fan!

By: Samurai Dave

Samurai Dave — Sun, 04 May 2008 00:01:23 +0000

Great tip on using the shellac as a sealer to keep the finish consistent. (That has always been a concern. Nothing like spending a lot of time on the woodworking, only to have the final step make it look blotchy.) Didn’t think to use it with a water based finish. NICE!

I third the motion for a follow-up video on darker woods. I’m in the process of building some black walnut cabinets with purpleheart trim. My wife (and I) will appreciate the lower odor of the water-based products. I am your eagar student. ;-)

Thank you so much for your willingness to share your experiences with us!

By: thewoodwhisperer

thewoodwhisperer — Sat, 03 May 2008 03:34:40 +0000

Since its such a thin layer of shellac, you can rush the process a little. In my weather, thats about 3-4 hours on the shellac. And yes I sand with 320 for final smoothing before the topcoat. And if you start sanding and it gets gummy or balls up in the sandpaper, the shellac is not ready yet.

By: Richard

Richard — Fri, 02 May 2008 12:12:14 +0000

Thankyou for the excellent video Marc.
How long do you allow the shellac to dry before applying varnish and are you sanding the shellac before applying water based varnish? 320 grit?

By: Steve Carter

Steve Carter — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:00:13 +0000

I agree with Marc 100%. Grinding coffee beans to the correct consistency is critical to the espresso’s flavor. When ground and packed correctly into the porta filter (the brewer’s filter basket), the espresso will trickle like honey dripping off a spoon. If the beans are ground too coarse, the espresso will be too watery and bitter. When ground correctly can feel slight granules and the ground coffee packs but does not cake when pressed between your thumb and index finger.