Episode 47 - Turning Water into Oil

23 Responses to “Episode 47 - Turning Water into Oil”

1. James Ryan on April 27th, 2008 12:50 pm

   What a great episode – thank you. I have taken so much from this espiode that I have saved it on my desktop – Smile.
   I can’t wait for the “Dark wood episode” I am working on a on a Zebrawood and Walnut table seeing your tips would definitely help.

   Thanks again for your hard work.
   Ryan

2. Denis Rezendes (Teen Age Woodworker) on April 27th, 2008 1:17 pm

   nice video Marc, i remembered hearing a lot of things that you mentioned in the Charles Neil Videos. I’m starting to get into water based finishes and dyes more now so this is going to help out a lot. A dark wood episode would be good too as i am doing a cocktail table out of walnut with a framed in curly maple veneer dyed to look somewhat like fire. Those general finishes products are great too. I have a couple of their water based dye stains and they have worked great so far. Thanks for the video.

3. Joseph Ribak on April 27th, 2008 2:40 pm

   Wow, Marc. I’m so glad you took the time to illustrate this (basic) comparison test. I don’t seem to take enough time to do these tests, myself. Primarily, I have been sticking to the finishes which I am used to. They work for me (being time efficient) and my customers. However, I am interested in broadening the scope of my finishes, to include water-based, especially for lower health risks, since I am in California (VOC limitations, you know) and they seem to be improving. This evidence was also revealed in the Earlex video. Anyway, thank you for another great video.

4. Steve Carter on April 27th, 2008 8:28 pm

   Thanks for another great video. I especially appreciate your scientific methodology! It’s great getting to see how the different options give slightly different results. You’ve inspired me to conduct my own experiments combining dyes with orange shellac and possibly garnet shellac. The possibilities are endless. This should be fun.

   The lack or odor and quick drying times are obviously some of the advantages of using water-based finishes. How do they compare with oil-base finishes when it comes to durability?

   Thanks again for yet another great video!

5. Wilbur on April 28th, 2008 9:51 am

   I thought this video was gonna help me save money on my oil bill. I was so excited that I could turn water into oil. But anyway, good video.

6. Bob Kuchar on April 28th, 2008 12:45 pm

   Another great video, Mark. But tap water can be a killer!

   Here in Illinois, using tap water for the pre-raise and dye dilute, can cause wood to turn ugly gray… especially with white oak. The solution is to always use distilled water.

7. thewoodwhisperer on April 28th, 2008 2:49 pm

   Steve. The waterbased polys are pretty tough. Not quite as durable as an oil-based varnish, but still pretty good. And I am working with some pre-cat water-based poly that is changing my mind on that as we speak. This is pretty tough stuff!

   And sorry to deceive you Wilbur, lol. Looks like you have to pay that oil bill afterall.

   Bob, thanks for bringing that up. Very important point and I didn’t even thing to mention it.

8. Steve Carter on April 28th, 2008 4:43 pm

   Marc - Thanks for the info on the durability! Please keep us informed on the pre-cat water-based poly — that could be very cool.

9. John - Long Island, NY on April 28th, 2008 5:07 pm

   Do you think it is necessary to “dewax” the shellac mixture you made from the shellac flakes?

10. thewoodwhisperer on April 28th, 2008 5:13 pm

    Hey John. The shellac is already “dewaxed”. Unless the shellac is your final finish of choice, its probably best to just stock up on dewaxed shellac. People report adhesion issues when using shellac with wax in it. I just never bother with the waxed stuff any more.

11. Shannon on April 28th, 2008 8:00 pm

    Great episode Marc. I love the scientific method approach and the subtle differences to the finish product. I really like you statement of using shellac as a wash coat on all projects as a type of sanding sealer. I never thought about this, but every time I have used shellac in my finishing schedule, no matter where in that schedule. I have been really pleased with the final outcome. This may be why. I second the idea on a dark wood episode. I would love to see some ways to pop the grain on darker woods.

12. Michael on April 29th, 2008 5:51 am

    Did no one want to mention the new title music? Nice change Marc - I like it!

13. Jerry on April 29th, 2008 8:26 am

    I have a question about the cure time for the water based polly products. I’ve heard that a build of 4 or more coats will remain soft for a long time. Anyone know how long it takes for this stuff to fully cure?

    thanks,
    jerry

14. Don on April 29th, 2008 9:11 am

    Yeah, the music is okay, but I miss seeing your two dogs.

15. Michael Moore on April 29th, 2008 6:24 pm

    When comparing the dregree of tone in your samples, remember that the oil based varnish (control) will continue to yellow over time. The fact that water based poly finishes don’t do this is one of thier many advantages, to me, at least.

    Also, I think you need to wait much longer between coats with water based poly than you suggest - especially if you go up to 4 coats. I’ve seen the softness that Jerry describes too, and it can take weeks to fully cure if you apply too much, too soon.

    I must say, your “Simple Varnish” DVD was excellent.

    Cheers,

16. Lip on April 29th, 2008 9:35 pm

    Great episode Mark … this is just a suggestion … but when you’re doing comparisons like this … it would be nice to see pictures in show notes … so that we could see the results a little better. I know it’s not easy putting all this together by yourself … but after all that effort … I’m not sure the video footage from a distance really does the finish or your effort much justice.

    Can’t wait for the next episode!

    BTW … fine ground coffee beans are intended for drip roast coffee makers not expresso machines … an “expresso grind’ is actually supposed to be rather course! lol

17. thewoodwhisperer on April 29th, 2008 9:56 pm

    Hey Lip. Thanks for the suggestion. I still have the practice boards and will try to get some hi-res pics of them. Great idea.

    And apparently we buy our espresso from different places, man. Where I come from, espresso is always ground finer than standard drip coffees….almost to the point of being a powder. If the grind is too course, you can’t compress it into a puck and you won’t get the intense bold flavor we expect from espresso. Unless I am misunderstanding what you said, I think you need a new Barista. ;)

18. thewoodwhisperer on April 30th, 2008 12:24 pm

    Ok guys, the hi-res picture was added to the original post. Enjoy.

19. Steve Carter on April 30th, 2008 2:00 pm

    I agree with Marc 100%. Grinding coffee beans to the correct consistency is critical to the espresso’s flavor. When ground and packed correctly into the porta filter (the brewer’s filter basket), the espresso will trickle like honey dripping off a spoon. If the beans are ground too coarse, the espresso will be too watery and bitter. When ground correctly can feel slight granules and the ground coffee packs but does not cake when pressed between your thumb and index finger.

20. Richard on May 2nd, 2008 5:12 am

    Thankyou for the excellent video Marc.
    How long do you allow the shellac to dry before applying varnish and are you sanding the shellac before applying water based varnish? 320 grit?

21. thewoodwhisperer on May 2nd, 2008 8:34 pm

    Since its such a thin layer of shellac, you can rush the process a little. In my weather, thats about 3-4 hours on the shellac. And yes I sand with 320 for final smoothing before the topcoat. And if you start sanding and it gets gummy or balls up in the sandpaper, the shellac is not ready yet.

22. Samurai Dave on May 3rd, 2008 5:01 pm

    Great tip on using the shellac as a sealer to keep the finish consistent. (That has always been a concern. Nothing like spending a lot of time on the woodworking, only to have the final step make it look blotchy.) Didn’t think to use it with a water based finish. NICE!

    I third the motion for a follow-up video on darker woods. I’m in the process of building some black walnut cabinets with purpleheart trim. My wife (and I) will appreciate the lower odor of the water-based products. I am your eagar student. ;-)

    Thank you so much for your willingness to share your experiences with us!

23. chris on May 5th, 2008 10:56 am

    Although you mentioned it as a fourth option, I think it would have been beneficial to the experiment to show the effects of using dye to tint a finish. I’ve been using a small amount of Transtint Honey Amber Dye Stain to tint General Finishes High Performance WB Topcoat for the last two or three jobs and it works great. In my mind, it’s a lot simpler too, because once you tint it you just finish the same way you normally would. Thanks for your work. I’m a fan!

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