Episode 46- Desert Outdoor Finish

April 14, 2008 | Filed Under All Videos, Blog, Video 

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Outdoor finishes can be one of the trickiest types of wood finishes to master. Why? Because there is never a one size fits all solution. As woodworkers, we are used to dealing with the seasonal wood movement of our interior pieces. But when one of our creations is destined to live outside, there is much more to consider. Depending on your region’s climate, your project could experience anything from snow and ice to hot desert sand storms. How the heck do we prepare for that?!?! Well, it is still an area that I am learning much about. I haven’t built many outdoor pieces and most of my knowledge comes from my reading and conversations with other woodworkers. Here in the Arizona desert, we have mild winters, occasional isolated rain spells, monsoon season (a temporary time of increased humidity), frequent dust storms, and of course, blazing hot summers where my shop can reach 125F, if left to its own devices. So in these harsh conditions, how would you finish your solid alder front door? For me, the answer lies in something most of us use on a daily basis: our workbenches. Much like your workbench, an Arizona front door will receive a great deal of punishment. And when an item is going to see that much abuse, sometimes the focus has to shift from absolute protection (a losing battle), to repairability. And that’s where my special homemade oil/marine varnish blend comes in handy. Watch the video and see what you think.

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23 Responses to “Episode 46- Desert Outdoor Finish”

  1. Michael (muddlermike) on April 15th, 2008 1:08 am

    Great episode Marc - and timely, since I’m considering refinishing some white cedar outdoor furniture this summer. I’ve never used the marine varnish and was curious if there are any other things to consider when using it (other than what’s on the label). The central NY climate is fussy too, in that we have temp ranges from humid 90’s in the summer to dry single digits and below zero in the winter. We get a good deal of precipitation from rain and snow. Would you think the oil/varnish blend would be appropriate for up here or should I consider more varnish and less oil? The usual wood treatments in the northeast include polys and paints, but it’s been my experience that polys can get gummy in the summer sun. The thought that the marine varnish might hold up better is encouraging. Also, to what extent would you think the marine varnish would color the wood - it looks pretty dark in the video.

    thanks,

    Muddler

  2. thewoodwhisperer on April 15th, 2008 8:37 am

    Hey Mike. The varnish, once diluted a bit really imparts the same amber hue you normally get from an oil-based varnish. Nothing unusual, but obviously a factor on lighter colored woods.

  3. Bruce on April 15th, 2008 2:46 pm

    Another great podcast Marc - very helpful. What no out takes!

  4. Vic on April 15th, 2008 6:28 pm

    Is Sylvia calling you with my questions? Timely for me, too. Sounds like a good finish on the “infinity” booth I’m making. I am so not ready
    to do a project yet, but my boss told me about this booth one day and asked, “is that something you could make?” We might as well have been playing truth or dare. The next thing I know, I hear someone’s voice that sounds a lot like mine, “Oh sure, no problem. When do you need it?” “In three weeks, yeah I can do that.” GOD,,,I’m such a maroon!

  5. Quiglag on April 15th, 2008 6:34 pm

    Hey Marc,
    I am in the process of building a stand for my BBQ Smoker. I have some redwood that I will be using for the top and sides, but I have no idea on how to finish it. It will have some light food contact, so I don’t want to use a typical deck sealer. Would the food grade finish you used in the cutting board ep. work, or will the outdoor weather eat it up to quickly. It is redwood so it can handle the outdoors, but I want it to last as long as possible.

    Thanks,
    Chris from SoCal

  6. Mitch on April 15th, 2008 9:15 pm

    Hi Marc,

    Really like your videos. Great info!

    At the end of your video you mentioned moist humid climates. What would you use or how would you change this finish to fit that climate?

  7. thewoodwhisperer on April 15th, 2008 9:23 pm

    MItch, I would probably use the Epifanes varnish straight. If its good enough for a boat, its good enough in humid conditions. :) I might also consider trying clear outdoor paint base. This is just paint without pigment. I have heard this makes an excellent outdoor finish.

    Quiglagg, I would probably recommend the straight varnish in your case as well. My only concern is the close proximity to the heat. I’m not sure how well or how long the varnish will stand up to that abuse. I suppose it also depends on the proximity of the stand to the firebox. I am sure you know this, but be very careful since we are talking about wood near heat. We don’t want the whole thing going up in smoke (no pun intended). Bottom line is if the wood is any where near your cook temp (200-250F), no finish in the world is going to survive. As for the concerns about food prep, the varnish will dry to a film that should have no adverse effects on food items. Just keep it clean like any other surface.

    I would be curious if anyone else has recommendations for high heat options.

  8. Quiglag on April 15th, 2008 10:24 pm

    Thanks for the advice Marc. No worries about the heat. The stand is for an electric smoker that is very well insulated. I can can grab on to it even at its highest temperature without it being hot.

  9. Steve Carter on April 16th, 2008 7:50 am

    I’ve used a product called CWF from The Flood Company (http://www.flood.com/flood/) to treat and preserve my redwood decks for the last ten years or so. CWF is a close to the wood finish. It doesn’t leave any visible coating on the redwood but protects it from the Texas heat and humidity. One of my decks is cantilevered over the lake putting it into full sun most of the day. I usually put new coat of CWF on the redwood every second year. They have several tinted versions but they are too artificial for my taste.

    I also use CWF on my redwood table and planter boxes that are on the deck. Quiglag, I’m not sure that it would give the protection that you want for your smoker stand. I’d consider making a cutting board that I could use to carry things back and forth from the house. I’m afraid that the redwood would be to soft to withstand the use/abuse that it might get otherwise.

  10. Todd on April 16th, 2008 1:57 pm

    Liked the new episode. I am just curious why you used naptha and not japan dryer. i have heard that boilded linseed oil has some japan dryer in it. Never really verified that though. Maybe because Naptha is cheaper than Japan Dryer or too much Japan dryer is a bad thing??? I await you always insightful response.

    Thanks.

  11. thewoodwhisperer on April 16th, 2008 7:00 pm

    Hey Todd. The naptha was added as a fast-evaporating thinner. The primarily goal being to thin the material out to a wiping formula. The boiled linseed oil already has driers added to it that help promote curing. Adding more could very well be a bad thing. But I don’t often use Japan Drier so I don’t know what the threshold is before something goes wrong. But I don’t think more drier is really necessary for this mix.

  12. Andres Cuevas on April 16th, 2008 7:16 pm

    Hi Mark, first of all I have to say that I’m always waiting for a new video of TWW. A lot of good information for somebody like me that is learning.

    Have you ever used an open pore sealer?

    Here in Chile there is a german product called Xyladecor, apart of all the protections to the wood (UV, termites, moisture,etc) this sealer doesn’t form a film in the wood, so it doesn’t crack and after a few years if you need to re-apply the product, you don’t need to sand the surface, just clean it and apply it again.

    The Windows of my house have this sealer and I used for a small furniture of my bathroom and the wood looks great. I’m working in the cabinets for my kitchen and I will use Xyladecor there too.

    I think that in US you must have a similar product.

    Andres.

  13. Paul-Marcel St-Onge on April 17th, 2008 10:02 am

    For the door in the video, it was already finished in the past with oil so you added one light coat. What if you’re building new furniture for the patio? How many coats would you put on? I’m guessing it would be one coat after the first coat that absorbs evenly.

  14. Robby on April 17th, 2008 1:25 pm

    Cool,

    Nice to see the various houses in Marcs live. Looks like Arizona is nice, especially the weather. héhé Doesn t make things easy for finishing.

    Some good info Marc, thanks, i m sure i m going to use i sooner or later.

    BTW Marc ? what is that new background we see on the podcasts ? Something that is inspired from your visit at Fine Woodworking ?

  15. thewoodwhisperer on April 17th, 2008 6:59 pm

    Hey Paul. For the patio, I would put 2-3 coats on new wood. But I would also make an effort to keep the furniture covered or out of the sun. That will dramatically improve the life of the finish as well as the furniture. But if we are talking full sun exposure, I would treat it exactly the same as a door. 2-3 coats then a light coat every year.

    And yes Robby, that is exactly where I got the inspiration from. I love the look of a classic old school wood shop. And unfortunately, it just doesnt make sense in my shop. But on the back wall, where my workbench is, I saw the perfect opportunity for easy wall-hung hand tool storage and a great backdrop for the show.

  16. thewoodwhisperer on April 17th, 2008 7:02 pm

    Thanks for the product recommendation Andres. There are lots of companies that make outdoor wood protectant, and something you just never really know what you are getting. So whenever possible, I try to keep things simple so that you aren’t dependent on any one companie’s “magic elixer”. And in many cases, if you look closely at the ingredients, you will see that it is actually just common off-the-shelf ingredients. But then again, some company, like the one you mention, might just have some proprietary mixture that kicks butt. If it aint broke, don’t fix it, right?

  17. MRod on April 24th, 2008 7:37 pm

    Thanks for bringing up this subject. When I originally built my deck 2 years ago there was zero information online/offline for staining decks in the Western States outdoors.

    I really wanted a deck that looked super shinny like in those made with Redwood in California.

    Your video was very informative and prompted me to search for more answers to rejuvenate for my Colorado sun baked deck.

    Bob at Popular Woodworking provides an interesting perspective. He looks at it from what causes the damage to wood. He then goes on to explain what you eluded to in some detail - nice companion to your video. He also goes down the Marine varnish from a Marine store path

    http://www.popularwoodworking......g?id=14744

    I’ll be trying that Marine store Marine varnish ASAP.

    Respectfully,
    MRod

  18. John Cooper on June 24th, 2008 1:05 pm

    Hey Marc,

    Any experience using this method on an oily hardwood like teak?

    We’re considering buying a teak table/chairs patio set, and wondering how best to preserve its beauty.

    Thanks!
    -John

  19. thewoodwhisperer on June 25th, 2008 9:59 am

    Hey John. The first thing to decide is what type of finish you want. You can have a light finish (an outdoor oil is good http://www.rockler.com/product.....;sid=AFN86) that provides moderate protection and relies on teaks natural weather resistance, which also requires more frequent maintenance. Or you can apply a film finish, like Epifanes, that offers significantly more protection and less maintenance.

    Option #2 sounds the best, but for some folks that film finish is a deal breaker. If you like the natural look, you are going to want option #1.

    Now remember, I use this finish method on my doors here in Arizona, which represents and extreme of heat and sunlight. You didn’t mention your climate so your situation may be different than mine. Email me and we can go into some more detail.

  20. Karl Smith on August 19th, 2008 11:42 am

    Hey Marc,
    Where did you pickup that Epifanes in Phoenix? The only place I’ve seen industrial finishes is at Spellman’s and Superior, and I don’t recall seeing any spar/marine varnishes.

    I’m in the valley, and my project as soon as the heat breaks is to strip/stain/finish our front door. So I have a while to wait ;)

  21. thewoodwhisperer on August 19th, 2008 8:34 pm

    Hey Karl. I don’t pick it up locally. I order mine from Jamestown Distributors:
    http://www.jamestowndistributors.com

  22. Steve Carter on September 9th, 2008 10:37 am

    Several weeks ago I refinished an outdoor table using your Outdoor Finish. The table top is made from wood taken from a Canadian brewery floor. Over the years it had started to look pretty bad.

    I started out by removing all the old finish and running the top through my drum sander. After several coats of the Outdoor Finish the table top looked fantastic – almost too nice for outdoor use. But I still didn’t know how it would hold up to out hot Texas summers.

    Last night we had a heavy rain (7½ inches) which resulted in the top getting drenched with water. The first thing I noticed was how the rain had beaded up into HUGE globs of water. Wiping them off was really easy and the top still looked great.

    This morning when I checked it again, I was thrilled with the results. The top still looked perfect. There aren’t any signs of water damage what-so-ever. And the best thing is that the tabletop feels even smoother than it did before the rain. It as a close to the wood feel that is unbelievable.

    Needless to say we will have to wait a bit longer to see how well it will hold up over time, but so far it has exceeded my expectations. Thanks for sharing the formula with us!

  23. Susan on October 13th, 2008 1:14 am

    Marc, You may be a godsend. We live in the Phoenix area and our house is two years old. I need to refinish the exterior vigas. Can I use your desert outdoor finish for them? They have been stained previously, but it is very worn. Could I add a little oil base wood stain to your finish? I don’t want them to look opaque, just darker like they were to begin with. Also, some of them have developed cracks. Is that a prpblem?

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