Dust Extractor or Cyclone? – Question of the Week
This week’s question comes from Jay. He writes:
“I’m having a dust collection dilemma. As with a lot of entry level woodworkers, I’ve blown my tool budget on power tools many times over. (I just bought a new Powermatic PM2000 table saw for Christmas) For the past few years, my only form of dust collection has been a Delta air scrubber and a shop-vac to clean up at the end of a project. I’ve been debating between investing in the Festool system or a cyclone type stationary collector. I see the benefits of both. However, I only have the funds for one of the two right now. Would you recommend trying to collect the fine dust of sanding and routing or the larger dust from stationary tools first?”
And here was my reply:
“Hey Jason. The first thing I would do is pick up a $35 respirator. That will then take the pressure off of the next purchase. If the dust cant get to your lungs, you are one step ahead of the game. Now, as you said, you definitely need both in the long run. But, you already have a shop vac that can be used as a dust extractor for sanding. It might take some clever fitting, but you should be able to get it to work. If you can put a HEPA filter on the unit and use vacuum bags, you are even better off. So that should do just fine until you have the funds for a high quality system like Festool. So, my suggestion is get the large tools taken care of first. Then build up the system from there. But keep that respirator on anyway just to be safe. It might be overkill, but you do plan on doing this for a long time, don’t you? Good luck Jason. And congrats on that PM2000!”
Note** – I have already received several emails asking me which respirator I recommend. The 3M 7500 is my favorite.
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That’s what I like about you Marc. Your answers aren’t “spend insane sums of money on X”. Instead, it’s something very doable for everyone.
Great advice Marc. That is exactly the route I’m taking. I started with a respirator (and still use it) and am working to the Festool. I can’t wait to introduce their line of products into my workflow. I too recently snagged the PM2000 (you will love that saw). After the respirator I went with a large Grizzly for my large power tool dust extraction. I don’t make any money doing this (yet) and don’t have space for an stationary system so the Grizzly serves me well. After reading the reviews of the Festool Rotex on LJ I will likely bring that and the C22 into my garage as the first Festool.
I think a dust collector is essential for stationary power tools. It doesn’t have to be a cyclone. A small DC, like the Delta 50-760, and a shop vac will go a long way until you can upgrade to a cyclone and a festool vac.
I too have a Grizzly unit (G1028Z) However there are a few things I’ve done with it that have made it much better.
1. Set up a 2nd stage system – this is cheap and easy — I use the lid from Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/.....1&ap=1)
2. Replace the cloth lower bags with Plastic ones – I use ones from Penn State Industries (http://www.pennstateind.com/). In my research they were the most afffordable. I can’t seem to find a direct link.
3. If you can afford it – get the top canister filter to fit your system. At a minimum get the 2.5micron bag.
4. Have a fine air filter that you can run for a few hours after you leave the shop.
Carl
I fully agree with Marc,
The respirator should always be the first defence, The large or stationary machines second. One advantage not mentioned so far is the less saw dust to clean up the more time spent on a project..
The stationary tools definitely represent the biggest pile of saw dust to clean up. Seriously a central vac system will save a lot of time sweeping and bending over to collect saw dust in the dust pan. as well as the much cleaner air to breath.
Good luck with your new shop. Sounds like the Powermatic saw is a most excellent start.
Marc and Nicole thank you for a great Blog to learn and share info on woodworking.
Again thak you Marc and Nicole
Kip
I have a solution for your cyclone dilemma, build you own. A set of plans are available thanks to yours truly. Go to SketchUp and get the model from Google, search for “LordLQQK’s wood dust collection”, or just click here: http://sketchup.google.com/3dw.....p;result=4. The cyclone can be made from 1/2 roll of 20″ galvanized steel flashing (good if you have a friend that needs one too), 1 6″ tube of steel duct tube, and (I think) 2 sheets of 3/4″ MDF. It can be built in about a day; barring interruptions from kids and spouses and the components cost under $75. For the engine I recommend the Grizzly 1029Z, it is a 2 HP 220V 12A air mover that will stuck the chrome off a bumper. You can also use its slightly little brother the 1028Z at 1-1/2 HP it is still enough for a small to medium shop. Whichever one you choose I would recommend getting the upgrade to a 1 micron bag, and placing a heavy 33 gal. trash bag (lawn and garden type) in the bottom of the filter area. I don’t get the reasoning for it but the standard bottom bag is sometimes 30 micron and the top is 5 or 2.5, so I put a bag on the bottom.
At the bottom of the cyclone it dumps to a standard trash can with a lid that has a hole with weatherstripping around the down feed pipe.
LQQK
Carl’s got the right idea, in my opinion.
I started out with a Penn State Industry DCB-1XL. I then added a garbage can cyclone adapter (Lee Valley). This is easily the best thing you can do to make a bag-type dust collector into a cyclone sucking monster. I rarely change the dust bag; the cyclone lid separates about 95% of the chips and dust. I have subsequently added a 1 micron pleated filter and plastic bag to replace the felt bags that came with the dust collector. Penn State now sells it in this configuration (http://www.pennstateind.com/store/dc1bxl-cf2.html) Switching the motor to 220 volts helps overall performance.
This is a single machine set-up. No duct work, just a long, flexible 4-inch hose (I like one Penn State sells – http://www.pennstateind.com/store/d08.html). With a blast gate on the Y-connector of the dust collector, I am able to draw from the dust port of my Unisaw and the overarm dust shield/guard. At the age of 50, I am still nimble enough to connect the machines as I need them, and I can use the exercise.
With a variety of adapters, I use this setup on everything (router, bandsaw, stationary belt sander, oscillating spindle sander, planer, jointer) except small hand tools (for which I use my Fein dust extractor that I got for Christmas).
In my opinion, dust extraction and collection is essential to long term health and the enjoyment of this craft. Inspired by Marc, I also wear my 3M mask much more than I used to, especially when sanding, much to the relief of my sinuses. No use in gumming up the lungs.
Cool. Nice to know I have a legitimate option for building my own cyclone. Thanks, LordLQQK.
I just ordered my 3M 7500 respirator from your store. My lungs and I thank you for the advice.
I’ve been using small portable dust collectors for a while. It’s been my experience that they really stink at collecting dust efficiently. I just finished 24 projects made out of a lot of MDF and plywood. Even though I ran the DCs a lot, I still have dust all over the shop and still in the cabinet of my table saw. The small units don’t have the CFM, I think, to do a good job. I’m upgrading to a Clear Vue cyclone. That’s what you have, right Marc? Do you like it? What model do you have? I’m thinking of getting the CV 1800.
Marc, somewhere I’ve seen the calculations for figuring out which DC you would need based on average CFM of the different woodworking machines. My next phase in building my shop is the dust collection.
Could I get your thoughts on which cyclone you’d pick, if you were to be in the market again? I’m thinking O’neida because they’ll design the piping. Again, your thoughts? I promised my wife I’d only spend about another $4,000 for the DC and cabinet stock.
Hey Geoff. I believe its the 1800. I have been relatively happy with the ClearVue until recently. My step dad is helping me a lot in the shop and I have multiple machines running at the same time quite often. Much more than in the past. So the performance has been suffering a bit.
As for having the chance to do it again? Definitely Oneida. I would have gone with Oneida the first time if I wasn’t starting a brand new business with no money, lol. Not only are their systems top notch, but having your duct system designed by them means you get it done right the first time. And the collector performs at its best.
I too have a Delta 50-760 like Germain. The dust in my shop is cut by no less than 80% while still in a temporary configuration. The Delta costs around $300.00 and you should shop for specials. The standard bag filters to 1 micron which only much more expensive systems have. There is also an after-market cartridge filter which lowers the overall profile, filters to 0.5 microns (HEPA is 0.3), and increases overall airflow (www.wynnenv.com). I have no problem with this system hooked up to a 20 foot, 4″ flex hose stepped down to either 3 or 2.5 inches on any one machine I run. For a smaller shop with space limits, this is a great dust collector. Now I know Festool is a sponsor here, but the 50-760 costs about 150.00 less than a CT22…. and should handle much more than the Festool could. I love Festool products myself, but I think that saying one of their canister/shop-vac style extracters is in the same class as even the single stage 50-760.
Marc, thanks for bringing up this subject. Dust control is important.
I also have the Delta 50-760. It’s really a great feature set. I like the clear bottom bag, since it’s really obvious when it’s getting full. The bag can be reused, too. I’m still on my first bag after emptying it probably 10 times. The metal hoops make bag changing a snap (pun intended). The top 1 micron bag is fine enough that I can’t smell any wood dust in the air after using it, and I have a tendency to be allergic to dust if there is any. Maybe 0.5 or 0.3 micron would be even better, but 1 micron has been great for me.
The air flow is SO much better than a shop vac. If you were thinking of buying or building a sanding table – no need. Just place the 4″ hose proximate to where you’re sanding. If you are working in bright light, it’s pleasing to watch all the dust molecules being sucked into the collector. There is no way you can do that with a shop vac.
Another thing that people sometimes get wrong: a 1 micron filter bag actually allows better air flow than the old 30 micron filter bags. This is counter intuitive but true.
My advice – FWIW – if you’re going to do any serious woodworking, get a regular dust collector. A really big collector (usually a cyclone) is only really needed if you want a permanent, ducted installation, and if you’re just starting out you will probably move your tools around too much over the next few years anyway.
By the way, the current issue of Wood Magazine has a test of <$400 dust collectors.
Marc,
I know that you exhaust your cyclone out into the desert. Air conditioning that big shop of yours in Arizona must cost a fortune. Can you comment on the trade-offs between using a filter on your dust collector vs sending all that dusty but cool air outdoors?
Thanks,
— Chip
Thanks Marc. I’ll only be using 1 machine at a time – I don’t trust anyone else with my tools!
I see that Ed now has the CV 1800 MAX for shops that run more than one machine at a time…