Differing Viewpoints on Design - Question of the Week
March 10, 2008 | Filed Under Blog, Question of the Week
This week’s question comes from Richard. He writes: “I understand your desire to design on the fly, so to speak, even though I’m exactly the opposite. What I don’t understand is why you design on the fly in the final medium, making the FINAL project. Why not use inexpensive and easy to machine materials to build a prototype. I bet you would find it easier to be adventurous and you would find all the problems and develop creative solutions for the final product. Then build the final product utilizing all the experience gained building the prototype. Despite my misgivings for your method, I do like the design of the table legs. Now for the top.”
Richard then provided three links to articles that apparently cited instances where other folks recommended designing in a less expensive and easier to work material. Two of the links didn’t work for me but here is the one that did (from David Marks); http://djmarks.com/stories/djm/designing_a_chair_92876.asp
So here was my reply: “Hey Richard. You pose an interesting question. First and foremost, there is no doubt in my mind that a prototype with cheap wood makes more sense. And remember that I did do a prototype for the most difficult part of the project: the leg. Now if I planned on making multiples of this piece or if this were for a client, I probably would have mocked up the entire thing. I also would have done a mock-up if I were using a really expensive wood for the final piece. Walnut certainly isn’t cheap, but its not even close to the price of other exotic hardwoods out there. Another reason I like this method is the fact that the finished product, while maybe not the perfect execution of a particular vision, is usually a serviceable and beautiful piece that can be given to a relative or put in a spare room if I really don’t like the final result. Fortunately, I have never had a piece turn into a complete disaster. Prototypes can be beautiful too. :) Another reason would be time. Sometimes I have a real good idea of where I want to take a piece, but I don’t really have the time to work everything out in a prototype. So, in many cases, I jump right into it.”
“I suppose the final reason is to prove a point. Prototypes, scale models, and developing exact plans and drawings can sometimes be deterrents for the average woodworker who wants to venture into the design process. Most of these people barely have time to build a finished piece let alone build it twice! My goal is to show them that sometimes you can just throw caution to the wind and have some fun. Hopefully they understand that I am just presenting ONE way to build….not THE way to build. As a professional custom woodworker, prototypes are just a fact of life. But as a person just looking to build a nice piece and have some fun without making “design” out to be a daunting task, designing on the fly is a reasonable and fun alternative. Hope that explains it a little better.”
For more viewpoints and opinions about design, check out this excellent assortment of articles provided by FineWoodworking.com:
Fine-Tune Designs Before You Build
Pro Portfolio: Masterful Apprenticeship
Pro Portfolio: When East Meets West
Comments
13 Responses to “Differing Viewpoints on Design - Question of the Week”
Got something to say?
-
Subscribe Now!
Via Email
Via RSS Feeds
Main Site Feed
iTunes Small Videos Large Video Feed iTunes Large Videos Wood Talk Online Feed iTunes WTO Feed
-
Support the Show
Donate
TWW Store- Tools and Supplies
Subscriptions
TWW Gear and DVDs
You can also support the show by shopping at:
Recent Comments
thewoodwhisperer: 5:50 pm: Hey Wilbur. No particular reason. Those marks are from the lumber...
wilbur: 5:41 pm: Hi Marc, I thought I might ask an actual question. It looks like there are some...
Yoann: 3:31 pm: Hello, my question may sound stupid, but I was wondering by reading this blog...
BoredCutter: 3:26 pm: Hey Craig, Good grief, how incredibly efficient! (Geez, and I’m...
Chaim Gottesman: 1:14 pm: How’s it going Mark? I just thought it was interesting how Israel...
-
What's New???
-
Check this out!!
Loading the LumberJocks Widget
Mark, I typically build a prototype for a several reasons.
First, being an electrical engineer by education and experience, design in many cases is followed by a prototype to fine-tune and work out flaws/bugs in a design. The prototype often worked very well but just wasn’t as “pretty” as the final product.
In woodworking, I sometimes build a prototype — for example with the end tables I am working on — to work out proportions (like how far below the top should I put the shelf), how to attach the shelf to the tapered legs, etc. Probably the biggest reason I build a woodworking prototype is because of my lack of woodworking experience where the aesthetics are important. Not exactly a talent that a lot of us left-brained engineers are born with.
You certainly have more woodworking experience and probably are more right-brained than myself and perhaps many of us :-)
And thanks for articulating your rationale.
Word!
I happen to be building a small portable table primarily for use in the field with my telescope stuff. Been wracking the ol’ brain pan over some details for quite some time and decided to just start. Well mid project the table was a bit short to (I’m using available wood for the most part) so the solution created another problem but the solution to THAT issue presented a very nice solution to one problem that bothered me from the beginning - the apron - or to even have one.
So while working things out before hand can be great, working on the fly can open you up to completely unexpected forks in the road - and you’ll wish you had thought of them earlier. But we tend to think in graphics mode which lends to seeing stuff in your hand in front of you - not on paper. Once we begin to manipulate parts in hand I think better solutions fall out.
It also helps if the project is for yourself. :^)
Marc,
I agree with you…but I think that it differs for everyone…I can see the thing in my head and I only need a small scetch working out a specific or two…after that I enjoy the finality of my efforts…get the ol’ blood flowing knowing your messing with a ton of $$ on quilted Maple or Wenge….and after all there are no mistakes just design opportunities.
Mark: Since the first time I watched your “design on the fly” episode I have been fascinated. I’ve made a lot of saw dust, but I have never had much luck with design on the fly. I admire your ability to adjust and work out the kinks, finishing with a beautiful piece. Personally I think this technique is suited for master craftsmen and you definitely fill that bill. I hope that novice woodworkers don’t get overly frustrated if they experience a disaster or two before they gain the design knowledge that will enable them to work out of the problems they can get into with this technique. Your show has been an inspiration to me and hopefully we can meet in the future.
David Marks was in our area this past weekend and I asked him about the making of prototypes. He said that he rarely makes full prototypes of a piece. He does do quite a bit with mock-ups to help him visualize the symmetry and scale of the piece. The mock-ups are usually scap wood or MDF just screewed together to hold it so he and the clent can visualize scale. He said that he will make a prototype of a particular joint to help work out the details of the joint. One of his presentations that he did was the build of table for a client. This particular table was the subject of one of his DVDs and he did not make a prototype for any of the parts. As he put it, he was probably getting paid less than minimum wage for this piece as it was. He admits that this peice evolved as it was being built and is the nature of his art.
So the old adage a plan is only good until it is put into practice doesn’t play here? Well being the ultimate amateur of amateurs when it come to woodworking I will have an idea, that may (or may not) turn into a drawing, which almost always gets changed as I go along. On the other hand, I love to work from other final plans!
I recently built a mobile lumber cart of my own design that I made a hand sketch of. As I started building I realized it wasn’t quite going to cut it, so I made changes on the fly. It came out great and I found some changes I would make if I were to build another so I guess it is in a way a prototype.
The point I guess I’m trying to make is, we each have ideas and different ways to approach them. As Marc said most of do not have the time (or money) to build a prototype. And some of like to “create” something with wood. Do what is best for you for the project you have chosen. I don’t believe there is any single right way to choose here.
Pat
Lou,
I couldn’t have said it any better!
RJ
Wow! Did I write that? Talk about your poor grammar! I guess I should not have written it so early this morning before coffee! :P
Why even try to make an argument one way or the other?
If you have the artistic ability to design and solve problems on the fly, then why not? If you like to make mock ups or prototypes then do it. One part of woodworking is the artistic process that goes into the final product. Do what you enjoy and feel comfortable with. For those who enjoy the process, why change the process if it leads to the desired results?
I think that it depends on the scope and scale of a project whether I’d make a prototype or not. When it comes to one-off items where the overall cost of materials isn’t super high, I agree that going to the trouble of making a prototype is probably overkill. But, if I were making a set of dining room chairs, or a reproduction bombe chest, or something that could take several months to build, I’d certainly spend sufficient time to plan in advance so I didn’t end up disappointed.
I use sketchup as my scratch pad to work out joinery and proportions with everything I build so I guess that is my way of avoiding building prototypes and models. Lately, I’ve started stitching the front, side and back view of projects designed in sketchup together horizontally and printing it out reduced to 1/10th the actual size. Folding the print out into a 3 dimensional object really helps me to see if I like the proportions of something I’m planning to build. It also enables me to sketch additional ideas in pen on my model to incorporate.
Someone mentioned David Marks’ approach to design above and I’ve noticed that he nearly always uses templates made out of 1/4″ mdf to pattern rout his expensive materials. I figure that’s his insurance against making mistakes and just winging it and his questions get sorted out when he’s making his templates. He even marks the position of mortises and other joinery on these templates. When I start using wood as expensive as he uses, I’ll probably start doing the same, but since so much of what I’ve done up til now has been painted woodworking, I tend to take chances I otherwise woudn’t take.
While I would love to do mockups beforehand, I just don’t have the time. I’m the hobbyist Marc alludes to who just wants to build some furniture. I’m building a bed right now and I am running into problems that would easily have been solved if I did a prototype beforehand, but I’d never finish the thing this year with that route. I may not finish it this year anyway!
That said, I do enjoy designing with scale drawings and have even gotten pretty good at sketchup, so I am not really even a fan of design on the fly. I want to see what exactly the piece will look like before diving in.
But, for Marc’s purpose I think the design on the fly was very instructive. David Marks and Norm always show you the prototype sitting there nice and pretty, but we don’t see if they ever struggle on any part of it or course corrections that inevitably happen midstream. With this video we’re seeing the dry run.
One thing I learnt from my classical music background …
Stravinsky used to intentionally put limits around what he would compose before he started writing each piece. He saw these restrictions as being a core part of the creative process.
By limiting your options, you become forced to find new creative ways to use what you’re presented with.
The design on the fly option Marc uses here seems to also force you to be creative. This is one aspect I personally love about this approach.