Here’s a fundamental question from Jason. He asks:
Hey Marc I have a really dumb question for you. Is there any real significant difference between Titebond Original, II, and III wood glues? Is one really better than another? Thanks for your time.
Not a dumb question at all Jason. Everyone has this question at one point or another. There are actually a number of differences between the three glue types if you dig into the details. But in my opinion, there are only a few factors that really make a difference to the average woodworker.
Price:
The first one you probably already noticed is the price. Looking at Rockler’s current pricing on quarts, we have $8.59 for Titebond Original, $10.49 for Titebond II, and $13.99 for Titebond III.
Water Resistance:
The second difference is water resistance. Titebond Original is for interior use only, Titebond II is water-resistant, and Titebond III is waterproof (well, technically its MORE water-resistant). So if you have a project that will be exposed to light water (cutting boards, outdoor furniture, etc..), Titebond II will suffice. If you have a project that will be submerged for short periods or exposed to ambient moisture for extended periods, consider Titebond III.
Open Time:
The third difference is open time. Titebond III offers twice the open time of Titebond II and Original. So for those complex glue-ups, Titebond III would be a good choice. As an aside, you might also look at Titebond Extend if you need even more open time.
Strength:
Strength-wise, there are some differences as well. But in my opinion, not enough to justify paying the cost difference between the three varieties. Check out the PSI strength ratings below.
I recently had someone give me crap for using TB III on a project when all I needed was Titebond Orginal. And then I used TB II on a project where TB III would have been stronger. Well I don’t know about you guys, but I am not about to stock three different types of PVA glue just for the sake of a few hundred theoretical PSI. A properly-fit joint with the appropriate amount of pressure will create an incredibly strong and reliable bond using any of the three glues.
So bottom line is for indoor projects, all you really need is Titebond Original. If you occasionally make outdoor projects and cutting boards, stock up on Titebond II instead. And if budget isn’t a factor and you don’t mind paying significantly more, you may as well just go with Titebond III and cover all the bases.
And speaking of Titebond glues, you can pick up all of your glue supplies and accessories in our Amazon Store. Its a great way to get the stuff you need while helping support The Wood Whisperer!
68 Responses to “Differences Between Titebond Glues”
While I’m not exactly made of money, my projects tend to be on the small side, and not all THAT frequent, so I use exclusively Titebond III just so I don’t have to think about it… And may I say, maybe your comment was an Arizona-influenced thing, but I’ll take all the waterproofing I can get for outdoor furniture where it rains more than once a year, LOL! B-) Titebond III all the way!
Marc,
Thank you for your comments regarding the different glues. I never knew the differences until now. (I knew they were different, but figured it was just a way for the company to make more money). I will certainly give it more consideration, but like you, will not stock all three in the hopes of using it for the perfect application.
I appreciate the more practical and common sense approach of yours. A woodworker should not skimp on tools/materials, but certainly can be seduced new products and materials that aren’t really necessary to the practice of woodworking.
As an aside, luthiers tend to prefer Titebond 1 because it more easily allows you to do future repairs, as the glue will release with the application of heat and moisture.
I wonder if there is any difference between the three in the visibility of the glue line on light-colored woods.
DD
I can definitely say that I notice a darker glue line from TBIII. Not exactly the best choice for maple/birch.
I have to say the dark glue line was a nasty surprise for me. I just recently built my first 2 dining room chairs and the backs are curved ladder backs. i laminated pine to get the thickness to cut the curved backs and when i cut my curves ugly brown lines were exposed, i was too far into the project to redo so i had to live with the mistake and learn from it. i bought the stuff because it was supposed to be the ultimate glue and it was on sale at the time so i went with it thinking that it couldn’t hurt to go with the best.
I have just recently stumbled upon your site and I love all the info you bestow upon us fellow woodworking enthusiast. I have always used TB1 in all my projects but was pleasantly surprised at the differences that I am reading. Especially the use of TB111 in darker color wood projects as I am currently working on a project using some black walnut. I am curious though Marc, as a fellow resident in AZ do you find that wood movement is a real big issue since we are relatively dry climate most of the year, given the wood has a low moisture content during the build?
I think we are in a climate that represents the best case scenario for indoor furniture. Our humidity is low with the exception of a couple months in summer. When the humidity does come its very short, and the AC units drive most of the humidity out of the air. So our stuff is probably more stable than most places. But I still build with movement in mind just because you never know. I may not always live in Phoenix, so better safe than sorry.
A side benefit of TB III is that it dries darker than the other two. I used with Walnut and it works really well (very hidden glue line).
Speaking of glue …
I recently found out what they mean about “shorter shelf life” for Gorilla glue. I bought a very small bottle about a year ago for a very small outdoor repair. The stuff is very pricey and I had never used it before. The repair went well and is holding up. I went to look for the small bottle the other day for something else … and to my surprise, the bottle had hardened completely. It was just a solid piece of plastic! Yikes! For the price of that stuff, if you really need it, you should only buy exactly what you need for your current use.
I had that experience the first time I used Gorilla glue. It hardened and was ruined. Then about a year ago I needed Gorilla again for some reason and bought a new small bottle.
This time, after using a small amount, I followed the directions on the bottle and squeezed the air out of it before I capped it. Last month the bottle was still viable and I used it again, so it can be done. It works well for some applications, and sometimes is better than Titebond and other PVA glues on wood as explained below.
I’m not a big fan of Gorilla glue because of the foaming — you have to keep wiping it for about half an hour — but it does have it’s uses. When repairing something like loose chair spreaders and spindles, it works well.
That is because PVA makes incredibly strong joints on unfinished raw wood, but in the process clogs the wood pores. If a previously glued joint comes loose, PVA glue does not bond effectively because the pores are clogged, which makes for a weak joint. Gorilla Glue does not rely on the pores to bond and makes a pretty strong joint as does epoxy.
Same thing happened to me. That years ago and now I see that they have bottles store themselves sitting upside down. I think that they last a little longer that way.
I’ve been told for luthier work to just stick with the original. Supposedly the II and III are not good for instrument building. Not entirely sure as to why though…
According to many banjo luthiers, they prefer TB I for primarily two reasons (them being cheap isn’t one of them).
Firstly, it will release on heat. That is good for attaching a fingerboard to the neck. It can be removed with a heat gun.
Secondly, supposedly it dries more brittle – or shall I say – less rubbery. That improves the instruments’ “sustain” or the time that a strummed string will produce a tone.
Yeah, people have already said it, but the last major difference is color. I and II look the same, while III is a semi-ugly dark brown. I personally don’t see the glue lines w/ walnut + titebond 2 but that’s just me. As far as strength, these days if you have a tight joint the wood will fail before the glue so the strength of titebond II is more than enough for me. A final point would be shelf life. If you did stock your shop with all three you’d also have to try to use up all three over the course of a year or so before the glue goes bad. I find it’s cheaper and easier to just stick with titebond II and avoid storing my completed projects submerged in water. :-)
I like the longer set time of III. I mostly work with darker woods so deeper color can be a plus, but of course I’d never leave any glue residue, he, he, he.
In the winter the lower working temp is also a plus for III.
I don’t use all that much so cost is not big issue,
III is also mentioned as better for laminations and veneer work when you don’t need urea formaldehyde (sp?)…nasty stuff.
Bottom line is that I reach for III for most work, but will use I or II for jigs or when quicker set is useful. Jason, good question.
One thing I can also add… Titebond III does NOT wash out of T-shirts… B-)
Ugh. Tell me about it!
I was going to say the same thing. I backed into some glue squeeze out and ruined my brand new “Virginia Tech Cow Tipping Team” T-shirt.
I never once tipped a cow. I have eaten a few though.
Talk about a DARK glue line, the dark Titebond II is it. Just for S&G I glued two pieces of maple together using the dark glue, actually added a contrast that could come in handy some day.
I don’t worry about glue strength because everything I have seen or read shows that the wood breaks before glue joint (with Titebond I).
If I build an outdoor project I use Titebond III.
So for me the only things left are price and color. Since I try to save money when I can I normally buy Titebond I and only when I am really worried about the glue line showing up in dark wood I use Titebond III.
Wow this is alot of discussion around glue…I love every word of it!
Don’t forget the bastard stepchild – Titebond liquid hide glue. Virtually as strong as Titebond I, and the open time of Titebond III. I use it any time I have a more complex glue-up.
And hide glue is reverseable; i.e., if you need to do a repair you can loosen a hide-glue joint with water.
Plus, unlike Titebond, or even epoxy, hide glue does not creep if it gets heated while under tension. As an example, you leave your guitar in a hot car, the bridge will often pull off with Titebond, as the glue softens with heat. Not so with hide glue. It stays hard until actually melted. Liquid hide glue, however, is considered to be inferior to traditional hot hide glue in strenght, but is a lot easier to use, with it’s long working time.
Concerning glue creep, a boatbuilding friend of mine once glued teak gunwale strips on a 30′ steamboat, bent around the hull using epoxy and no screws. On launch day, after a couple hours in the hot sun, the strips popped right off.
Even though glue joints can be as strong as the wood, for outdoor applications gluing AND screwing is often the best way to go.
DD
I normally use II and III. The few bucks difference in price is not an issue with me.
One thing for the hobbyist to keep in mind is expiration dates. I think Marc already touched on this when he said he didn’t want to stock 3 types of glues, but as a hobbyist, if I stock 3 types, I’ll have 3 bottles of 2/3 full expired glue. It might be less costly to buy a slightly larger bottle at a lower cost per ounce and use it all instead of throw out portions of multiple bottles.
So is there any difference in shelf life between them?
From the Titebond website:
“Our literature states the shelf life of all of our glues as one year. Most of our yellow and white glues, including Titebond Original and Titebond II, remain usable beyond two years. Should Titebond Original become thick and stringy, or Titebond II turns into an orange colored gel, these changes signify that the glue is no longer usable. The minimum shelf life of Titebond III is stated as one year, when stored appropriately at room temperature. Titebond III is expected to last beyond its stated shelf life. If thickened, shake vigorously by firmly tapping bottle on a hard surface until product is restored to original form.”
I have used all three past two years. I keep my glue in the house so that helps with shelf life.
Maybe even more important than shelf life is working temperature. Don’t use Titebond if it’s cold in your shop. I once did a glue up without thinking on a winter day and ended up with a chalky mess. Warm up your working area before gluing.
DD
I think it would be worth differentiating Gorilla Wood glue vs the epoxy. I’ve had the same issue with the epoxy hardening after being on the shelf but not the same issue with wood glue.
Epoxies sometimes stiffen with age in their containers. You can often bring them back to life by heating them in a microwave for a minute or so on the defrost setting.
DD
What is the effect of cold and heat on the shelf life of the different Titebonds? I have an unheated. un-air-conditioned garage workshop. I left a unopened gallon jug of TB I on a shelf over the winter and it was a thick unusable glob when I opened it in the spring. I now keep all adhesives inside, but is cold that detrimental to all glues?
From my experience, all of these PVA-type glues respond poorly to temperature extremes. I don’t know their specific limitations, but I think any of these glues would have resulted in the same gloopy mess.
Glad I STUCK around to read this about glue. Nice to get a refresher about the uses of the 3 Titebonds. I STICK with TBII since it can be used indoors or out. The water resistance of TBII lasts long enough for the few outdoor projects I completed to hold off glue joint failure. It’s amazing that we put some much time effort and technology into glue today when there are ancient items found in the ground that are still glued together from “simple” glues…
I usually stick with Titebond 1, but have used the others depending on the job. Still, there is some very useful information here.
I’m with rgdaniel on this one. I live southern New England, where it gets nice and muggy in the summer and thunderstorms for almost all of the month of July. I’m wondering if the “water resistant” TB2 is really up to a few months of humidity above 90% for outdoor furniture. Either way, for $3.50 more you’re definitely buying a little peace of mind.
Though to be fair, I too have had a few problems using TB3 to glue up end grain, having it leave dark spots. If you follow the directions Marc gives for gluing an end grain cutting board he says to wait a half hour and then scrape the squeeze out off, but I’ve never seen TB3 dry enough in a half hour (remember the demonic humidity) to scrape it off like that. It’s always sticky still. If you wait until it’s gummy enough to scrape it does leave a nasty dark spot to contend with, but if you try and wipe it off with water right away and the board isn’t thick enough to resist swelling you risk warping the end grain before the glue dries. I use a junk chisel to lightly scrape up the squeeze out right when I glue flat things now and haven’t had a problem since.
Just built my little girl a swingset with Titebond III and love the consistency and worktime. Bought it because of the waterproof rating, but for outdoor use Titebond II would have been sufficient? We live in VA where it rains at the drop of a hat!
Well if you believe the labeling, yes I do believe the TBII would have been sufficient. But if you read these comments and you want to be extra safe (after all, its a kid’s swing set), I think TBIII is a better way to go. You made the right choice in my opinion. :)
Liked the article. Gve some useful info that you would not get without spending hours at the store. The article and the comments have sold me and created a TB fan.
I’ve only used Titebond original in my very short wood working experience (6 months at most). And just to show my complete ignorance, I thought Titebond original was also referred to as the “carpenter yellow glue” or “yellow glue”. To my surprise, I recently realized that “yellow glue” is actually a glue of its own! Now this might be off topic but how does carpenter yellow glue compare to the titebond one? Especially working time? I had a lot of issues with titebond as the working time is way too short for a newby like me. My glue up (when more than two glue lines are involve) are artsy; pieces always shift a little when putting the clamp pressure and I always too late to fix it …
Someone please correct me if I am wrong here, but Titebond I should be pretty close in its properties to what most know as “carpenter’s glue”. Both are aliphatic resin emulsions.
Its been a while since I played with carpenters glue, so I can’t say from specific experience.
alphabetic resin what???
I would agree. Titebond 1 = carpenters glue.
DD
I use TB II as the middle of the road glue. I don’t do outdoor projects. If I had one I would probably get some TB III in a small bottle for that project.
Heat and humidity in the Houston area is hard to deal with on shelf life especially if you have senior moments and forget to bring the glue inside.
I’m on the Tite Bond 3 train, doesn’t hurt to cover all your bases.
I was just asking myself the other day I wonder what the differnece is in the glues. Didn’t even realize there was a TBIII. My next question would be what is better TiteBond – Gorrilla Glue – Elmers Wood Glue. I currently have one bottle of each and wonder ever time I glue something which is better..
I’m a TB III user. I’m an idiot with glue-up and like more open time. :)
I would be interested to know if the Gorilla Wood Glue has similar strength. it seems to be pretty strong and I’ve not had any issues with it.
I wonder if anyone still uses Weldwood plastic resin glue. I used to use it a lot, and it was a very good glue. Quite waterproof, with no tendency to creep. An strong. Perfect for laminating waterskis, etc. It seems to have faded away.
DD
In a basement shop, I usually stock Titebond I. It is cheaper and is good down to 50 degrees as opposed to Titebond II which is good down to 55.
Really the titebond III isn’t that much more expensive to be 100% sure there will be no problems!! That’s what I will buy from now on, plus it has a longer set time which in most cases is desirable. Thanks for the info Marc.
Straight from the label on the bottle on titebond III “Not for continuous submersion or for use below the waterline”. Now I don’t know about anyone else but to me that is NOT “waterproof”. Cyanoacrylate or CA glue on the other hand is has passed submersion tests for the equivalent of 10 years and has a 2 year shelf life. The disadvantage to a CA glue is it does not have the sheer strength of PVA glue, and you usually have less than a minute till it sets. For anyone who turns pens the CA glue is ideal for gluing the brass tubes into your blanks before turning. For unusual glue ups where you don’t want to use a brad or other mechanical fastener use a drop of CA glue inside your regular glue joint to hold things in place while your Titebond or other glue sets. CA glue can also be tinted or colored…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate
I have seen some folks on forums giving Titebond hell for their overuse of the term “waterproof”. I should have been more careful in my wording in my post. Will fix it now.
CA glue is great stuff, but not practical for large projects.
Epoxy is the adhesive of choice for boat builders, where you may have an object actually submerged in water. The other choice is resorcinal glue if you don’t need gap-filling ability. Resorcinal will also pass the boiling test, if you plan on boiling your project. :->
DD
True the cost of CA glue does make its use on large projects undesirable. But I have used CA glue to fill a small bullet hole in the surface of a black walnut table I built, and if you don’t know it is there you would be hard pressed to find it. So in addition to Titebond III I always keep a supply of CA on hand.
Karl How in the world did your table get a bullet hole in it? Was it pre or post construction?
I found the bullet with my planer while prepping rough stock. Small caliber, all lead, probably a 22. Now the walnut lumber in question was bought at an estate auction. Not sure how many years it had been air drying, but 400+ board feet of Black Walnut for $400 you don’t pass up even if it has an occasional bullet in it.
Great summary – you should put this on the new forum in the joinery/construction section.
Man I never would have thought to bring the glue into the house, I’m reminded now why I read TWW.
I have only used TB 2 on any of my projects. Not for any particular reason, just mostly because I can usually only afford one bottle at a time. I went through the very scientific approach of picking a glue by watching as many videos as possible of woodworkers, and paid attention to what color the label was on the glue bottle they used. (this was made more difficult by people transferring glue to intermediate bottles, such as those with fancy tips or pressure spouts, or whatever.) the majority won out on the decision to purchase TB2.
However, I have noticed no particular problem in using this, as my workshop tends to run the humidity range of 12 percent to as much as 60 percent within any given week. (I do laundry within reach of my workbench.) And, given my area’s range of weather (August typically runs 65 percent or more humidity, while May and February run higher but tend to “dump” humidity as precipitation), I can honestly say I’m glad to have gotten this particular glue. While I appreciate TB3′s ability to “shrug off” more moisture, the projects I have attempted have not required the increased capabilities of it. Yet.
But I do appreciate that there has been someone who finally explained it in a manner I can understand.
Thanks for explaining the differences.
I had always used TB II without any problems. I started using III in December and now alot of my tables are cracking and splitting. Has anyone had any similar problems?
Gabe, I’ve been using TB III for perhaps two years of busy hobbyist work/play. Haven’t noticed any problems yet. In SoCal we don’t have humidity swings as in some locations. December might be a tip off of at least some issues to explore…either with the material or the glue. Maybe look for any others changes from when you successfully used TB II. I can’t imagine there being a big difference that would effect cracking and splitting. Anyone else having experiences similar to Gabe?
I stumbled across this page while searching for good published examples of Titebond II’s long term durability when used in exterior applications and couldn’t resist chiming in… I’m a Technical Specialist with Franklin International.
Titebond III was designed to pass the ANSI/HPVA Type I water resistance specification, which doesn’t entail great water resistance so much as high temperature water resistance. This makes it uniquely well suited to applications where steam or boiling water may be encountered, the best example being cutting boards. Despite the fact that no one recommends it, when your cutting board finally runs through a dishwasher it won’t delaminate if you used Titebond III.
Under typical environmental conditions Titebond II and Titebond III are equally resistant to water. However, Titebond III exhibits greater thermal plasticity, which is a technical way of expressing that it loses more strength as temperature increases. Since all PVA adhesives form a plastic film when dried this plastic will effectively melt once a sufficiently high temperature is reached. Titebond Original and Titebond II lose about 50% of their strength at 150°F (not inconceiveable for dark wood in direct sublight on a hot day), while Titebond III can lose up to 2/3rds. For stressed joints or laminations this introduces a greater potential for joint failure in the temperature range likely to be encountered in outdoor applications.
Differences in strength between wood glues is a common misconception. We determine shear strength using the ASTM D905 specification using hard maple. Since the glue is stronger than the wood it is bonding we are actually measuring the shear strength of maple, which tends to be between 3200-3400 PSI. On a good day using the right piece of wood and the planets properly aligned Titebond Original, II, and III can all produce a result of 4000+ PSI. The important thing is that the glue is not going to be a weak point in your piece.
Creep is rarely addressed, but it’s too important to ignore. The term comes from mechanics and refers to the permanent deformation of a solid material resulting from sustained loads over time. If you carry a gallon of milk home in a plastic bag and by the time you get home the handles have stretched or possibly failed, you have seen creep firsthand. Creep is the reason PVAs cannot be used in structural applications such as load bearing beams carrying several tons. It also correlates with the thermal plasticity I mentioned earlier. Out of our wood glues Hide Glue has the highest resistance followed by Titebond Extend, Titebond Original, Titebond II, and Titebond III. It is also only a design concern for pieces such as stringed instruments, which are expected to carry relatively large loads indefinitely.
Titebond Original, II, and III are not any better or worse than each other overall. One of them will generally suit a given application better than the others. When making a recommendation, these are the main criteria I use to make a decision. Consider strength to be equal, if water resistance is needed, and what temperature range the piece needs to withstand and you will be on track towards making a good selection.
Great article, TWW. I lurk around here often and hope you don’t mind my chiming in.
-Hugh
DUDE!!! Where were you when I wrote this post?!?! Some of the best explanation on the topic that I have seen to date! Thank you!
I’m glad I was able to help! If you have any questions for adhesive realted articles feel free to shoot me an e-mail or I can give you my direct line. I would even be happy to write up a series on woodworking adhesive types, their strengths and weaknesses, as well as how to make the best selection for a project.
You know where to find me if you’re interested.