Comments on: Danish Oil on top of Shellac? – Question of the Week http://thewoodwhisperer.com/danish-oil-on-top-of-shellac-question-of-the-week/ Education and entertainment for the modern woodworker. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:19:02 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Tom http://thewoodwhisperer.com/danish-oil-on-top-of-shellac-question-of-the-week/#comment-33751 Tom Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:42:40 +0000 http://thewoodwhisperer.com/?p=1138#comment-33751 Yeah, I did seal the project with shellac and then topcoat it with Danish Oil. And, it worked... for a couple of reasons... 1) The shellac is a very thin cut. I took Zinnser's Seal Coat and cut it half and half with denatured alcohol. So, we're talking 'washcoat' strength - not a real heavy duty film finish. 2) I did buff off all the stuff that was on the surface (Leaving the stuff in the pores in the process) with some #0000 steel wool. That basically removed most of the shellac right there. The result was that any 'end grain' that came wavy to the surface was sealed, but the long grain was not. When the oil hit the wood, the absorption is controlled - a very nice thing to have happen on blotch prone woods. The key here - as Marc alluded to - is to buff the hell out of the shellac before you attempt to apply the final finish... Yeah, I did seal the project with shellac and then topcoat it with Danish Oil. And, it worked… for a couple of reasons…

1) The shellac is a very thin cut. I took Zinnser’s Seal Coat and cut it half and half with denatured alcohol. So, we’re talking ‘washcoat’ strength – not a real heavy duty film finish.

2) I did buff off all the stuff that was on the surface (Leaving the stuff in the pores in the process) with some #0000 steel wool. That basically removed most of the shellac right there.

The result was that any ‘end grain’ that came wavy to the surface was sealed, but the long grain was not. When the oil hit the wood, the absorption is controlled – a very nice thing to have happen on blotch prone woods.

The key here – as Marc alluded to – is to buff the hell out of the shellac before you attempt to apply the final finish…

]]> By: Eric Pellerin http://thewoodwhisperer.com/danish-oil-on-top-of-shellac-question-of-the-week/#comment-32915 Eric Pellerin Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:50:36 +0000 http://thewoodwhisperer.com/?p=1138#comment-32915 Finding the Bull's Eye Dewaxed Shellac in Canada, or at least in the Edmonton area was very difficult. I bought 2 lbs of raw dewaxed from Hock Finishes http://www.hockfinishes.com/ with no delivery problems. As for the Transtint, I purchased it from Rockler again with no delivery problems. After I placed my order I found company in Sasktoon Wood Essence http://www.woodessence.com/ they have a large selection on dewaxed shellac and dyes. Finding the Bull’s Eye Dewaxed Shellac in Canada, or at least in the Edmonton area was very difficult.
I bought 2 lbs of raw dewaxed from Hock Finishes http://www.hockfinishes.com/ with no delivery problems. As for the Transtint, I purchased it from Rockler again with no delivery problems.
After I placed my order I found company in Sasktoon Wood Essence http://www.woodessence.com/ they have a large selection on dewaxed shellac and dyes.

]]> By: Denny http://thewoodwhisperer.com/danish-oil-on-top-of-shellac-question-of-the-week/#comment-32900 Denny Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:06:30 +0000 http://thewoodwhisperer.com/?p=1138#comment-32900 Marc, thanks for the explanation. I had the idea that sealing with shellac was an all or not event. I didn't know that you could partially seal the wood. Once again you have demystified the art of finishing wood for me. Marc, thanks for the explanation. I had the idea that sealing with shellac was an all or not event. I didn’t know that you could partially seal the wood. Once again you have demystified the art of finishing wood for me.

]]> By: thewoodwhisperer http://thewoodwhisperer.com/danish-oil-on-top-of-shellac-question-of-the-week/#comment-32874 thewoodwhisperer Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:50:21 +0000 http://thewoodwhisperer.com/?p=1138#comment-32874 Gator- Sorry to hear about that man. Here's what I would do. I would probably wipe the surface down with denatured alcohol. This should cut through any surface oil and hopefully start to dissolve the shellac below. I would rub the surface rather aggressively and remove as much shellac as possible. Let it dry. Within an hour or two, the surface should be very dry to the touch. At this point, sand the surface. You can either sand back to bare wood, or leave the surface partially sealed, depending on how much shellac is still in/on the wood. Now this leads me into Denny's question. Sealing wood is not an all or none event. Wood can be partially sealed. Think of the grain like a filter. The more sealer you add, the more clogged up the filter gets. And eventually, nothing passes through. So sealing the surface as Tom did, with a 1# cut of shellac only partially seals the surface. Furthermore, the subsequent steel wool buffing removes even more of the shellac, leaving you with a glass smooth surface that will still be able to absorb some finish. But there is a fine line here. If Tom used a 2# or 3# cut, he may have had some curing issues. But there are a lot of variables at play here including the cut of shellac, the properties of the wood itself, and how much you sand the initial layer of shellac. It also depends on just how much oil is in your oil/varnish blend. The less oil in the mix, the better your chances are of quick and easy curing. Hope that explains it a little better. Gator- Sorry to hear about that man. Here’s what I would do. I would probably wipe the surface down with denatured alcohol. This should cut through any surface oil and hopefully start to dissolve the shellac below. I would rub the surface rather aggressively and remove as much shellac as possible. Let it dry. Within an hour or two, the surface should be very dry to the touch. At this point, sand the surface. You can either sand back to bare wood, or leave the surface partially sealed, depending on how much shellac is still in/on the wood. Now this leads me into Denny’s question.

Sealing wood is not an all or none event. Wood can be partially sealed. Think of the grain like a filter. The more sealer you add, the more clogged up the filter gets. And eventually, nothing passes through. So sealing the surface as Tom did, with a 1# cut of shellac only partially seals the surface. Furthermore, the subsequent steel wool buffing removes even more of the shellac, leaving you with a glass smooth surface that will still be able to absorb some finish. But there is a fine line here. If Tom used a 2# or 3# cut, he may have had some curing issues. But there are a lot of variables at play here including the cut of shellac, the properties of the wood itself, and how much you sand the initial layer of shellac. It also depends on just how much oil is in your oil/varnish blend. The less oil in the mix, the better your chances are of quick and easy curing.

Hope that explains it a little better.

]]> By: Denny http://thewoodwhisperer.com/danish-oil-on-top-of-shellac-question-of-the-week/#comment-32871 Denny Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:28:38 +0000 http://thewoodwhisperer.com/?p=1138#comment-32871 I have to admit that finishing has always puzzled me. I thought I understood Marc's explanation and it made sense. But now I'm confused. In Tom Lovino description of his Fujiwhara chest, he states "... I sealed the entire piece with 1# cut of Seal Coat, followed by a buffing with #0000 steel wool. Brushed and vacuumed the thing off, then hit it with three coats of Watco natural, sanding between each with 400 grit paper…." Didn't Tom just use Watco Danish oil on top of shellac? I have to admit that finishing has always puzzled me. I thought I understood Marc’s explanation and it made sense. But now I’m confused.

In Tom Lovino description of his Fujiwhara chest, he states “… I sealed the entire piece with 1# cut of Seal Coat, followed by a buffing with #0000 steel wool. Brushed and vacuumed the thing off, then hit it with three coats of Watco natural, sanding between each with 400 grit paper….”

Didn’t Tom just use Watco Danish oil on top of shellac?

]]> By: Gatorbait http://thewoodwhisperer.com/danish-oil-on-top-of-shellac-question-of-the-week/#comment-32866 Gatorbait Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:43:47 +0000 http://thewoodwhisperer.com/?p=1138#comment-32866 Marc, based on VERY recent experience I agree whole heartedly with your assessment. I did just that. I tried to put Watco Danish Oil on top of my sealed (with shellac) Mahogany. Arg!!!!! It has been a week and the wood is still bleeding. Will it ever dry? What steps do I take to remove the Danish oil and sealer? Is that even possible? Marc, based on VERY recent experience I agree whole heartedly with your assessment. I did just that. I tried to put Watco Danish Oil on top of my sealed (with shellac) Mahogany. Arg!!!!! It has been a week and the wood is still bleeding. Will it ever dry? What steps do I take to remove the Danish oil and sealer? Is that even possible?

]]> By: Conrad Bennett http://thewoodwhisperer.com/danish-oil-on-top-of-shellac-question-of-the-week/#comment-32752 Conrad Bennett Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:14:16 +0000 http://thewoodwhisperer.com/?p=1138#comment-32752 Hey Marc this is actually a question for Eric who asked you the above question. I am also from Canada and feel Eric's pain in trying to get certain finishes / tools etc. Eric mentioned that he can get dewaxed shellac and transtint....I live in Ontario Canada and can't seem to get the "seal coat" shellac. Could you give me Eric's e-mail so I could in touch with him and find the shellac? Thank you by the way, get on with the gadget station I can't wait to see how it turns out!! :) Keep up the great vids!!! Conrad Hey Marc this is actually a question for Eric who asked you the above question. I am also from Canada and feel Eric’s pain in trying to get certain finishes / tools etc. Eric mentioned that he can get dewaxed shellac and transtint….I live in Ontario Canada and can’t seem to get the “seal coat” shellac. Could you give me Eric’s e-mail so I could in touch with him and find the shellac?

Thank you

by the way, get on with the gadget station I can’t wait to see how it turns out!! :)

Keep up the great vids!!!

Conrad

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